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Peter Strzok gets exposed
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Peter Strzok gets exposed
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologistTags: None
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Mueller deputy praised DOJ official after she defied Trump travel ban order: 'I am so proud'
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017...-so-proud.htmlAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Investigators don't tend to have a positive opinion about the criminals they are investigating, especially as they will know a lot of the wrongdoings of those people that aren't yet public. So this seems unsurprising.
Though we're only at 4 indictments so far, so if Trump wants to be as great at criminality as some of the previous Republican administrations, there's still a fair way to go...
"I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostInvestigators don't tend to have a positive opinion about the criminals they are investigating, especially as they will know a lot of the wrongdoings of those people that aren't yet public. So this seems unsurprising.
Though we're only at 4 indictments so far, so if Trump wants to be as great at criminality as the Reagan or Nixon administrations, there's still a fair way to go...
Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post...Hillary, who lied to the FBI
he fudged Comey's language so he could get her off the hook.
I, personally, think they should have pinged her on intent to hide her emails in an effort to avoid her FOIA obligations to release them all. In the end they seem to have decided that disciplinary action for such FOIA breaches were an internal department thing and thus that the state department itself would have sanctioned her if she still worked there, and that FOIA was none of the FBI's business/not what they were investigating, which I personally think was a poor decision. I suspect a bit of political calculus came in here because James Comey didn't want the the FBI to seem unduly political and so didn't want to prosecute Hillary for a minor charge like FOIA avoidance just before an election, since he believed that would throw the election to Trump, whom it seems like he might have been also investigating at the time and expecting to later prosecute on various money laundering and fraud and electoral charges (I guess we shall see over the next couple of years what comes of that)."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostInvestigators don't tend to have a positive opinion about the criminals they are investigating...
And you show your extreme bias by calling them "criminals" before they're even convicted. (Even an indictment is not a conviction)The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSeems like a totally unsubstantiated claim.
What got her off the hook was not the change to the language you cite in your OP, it was the fact that Comey's team decided that intent was necessary to break the statute. They decided that in order to be guilty she had to have intended to leak classified information, rather than merely being extremely careless/grossly negligent. I do not personally agree with Comey and his team's decision on that. For one, they could have come out on day 1 and said "look our interpretation of the statute is that intention to leak the information is required, and nobody is alleging that Hillary Clinton was intentionally trying to leak information, they are instead alleging that she's trying to hide information from Freedom of Information Act requests by using a private server, so she's clearly not guilty of having intent to leak, so there's nothing to investigate."Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom
Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
sigpic
I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostAnd you show your extreme bias by calling them "criminals" before they're even convicted. (Even an indictment is not a conviction)Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostExcept that "interpretation" is flat out wrong. Intent is expressly NOT required to fall afoul of the statute.
**I am not participating in this back and forth. I just thought my crim prof's reaction was hilarious.**
"Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
"I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
Katniss Everdeen
Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.
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Originally posted by One Bad Pig View PostExcept that "interpretation" is flat out wrong. Intent is expressly NOT required to fall afoul of the statute.
I totally agree with you OBP that it is not what the statute says, read in isolation and when I first heard Comey give his speech I thought "huh???" because I'd read the statute and knew it didn't mention intent. However bits of statutes read in isolation is not how the law works, and not how case law works - other laws influence the interpretation of statutes and the decisions of many judges over many decades affect the degree to which things like intent are viewed as relevant.
Now it's possible Comey was simply lying for political expediency, and had decided to make up the need for 'intent' as a plausible defense for Hillary. However Comey for most of his life has been staunchly Republican, and more recently in the FBI has done his best to be nonpartisan, so it seems rather doubtful that he would risk his career in order to be pro-Hillary, and given he gave a scathing speech against her it doesn't seem to me like he was pro-Hillary. And, frankly, if Comey had been factually wrong about intent being required, I would have expected literally dozens of experts to appear on TV within the week saying "Comey is factually wrong on this", which didn't happen. It is interesting that thewriteranon's professor thought Comey was wrong, but as far as I can tell, that opinion doesn't appear to be widely shared among experts.
So as much as I hated Hillary, and would have loved to see her jailed, and as much as I hate corrupt politicians across the board and would love to see every single corrupt Democrat, corrupt Republican, the entire corrupt Trump administration jailed, and as much as I think Hillary did intentionally try to hide emails from FOIA release... it does not appear like that is actually a prosecutable crime in practice in the US currently. And on the other side of the aisle, Republicans appear to do their best to evade FOIA as well, with numerous Trump officials using private email including Mike Pence using it to hide emails when he was governor of Indiana.
I think what we've seen from the Clintons in general in their careers is that they have good enough lawyers advising them of exactly where the line of illegality is, and as they are contemplating doing their near-criminal behavior they are very careful to stay just inside the line of legality with their competent lawyers carefully guiding their steps. Whereas what we've seen from Trump makes me think he's way over the line of illegality and has been for decades and that the lawyers he employs are incompetent buffoons who couldn't defend a saint successfully. Whether the US political setup will allow Mueller to remove Trump for illegality is another matter entirely (e.g. Trump may fire Mueller, Trump may pardon himself and his family, the Republican congress may simply refuse to impeach Trump no matter what comes out, Mueller may view it as destabilizing for the country to try and indict the President so might simply indict everyone around Trump instead etc).Last edited by Starlight; 12-05-2017, 10:00 PM."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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fwiw, if there is no intent in a statute, courts have 3 options:
1. Strict liability, no intent required - typical for regulatory crimes (like gun regulation, that sort of thing)
2. Read intent into the statute - for the Model Penal Code, this means subjective recklessness, which is a much, much lower level of intent than what Comey was apparently reading (he read a purpose+ intent, which is an uber-high, uber-rare level of intent*); the Model Penal Code isn't law, but most states adopt it to some degree.
3. Read no intent and strike it down as unconstitutional
*See Cheek v. United States - Cheek was let off on tax evasion because the court decided to use this almost unknown level of intent; their reasoning was basically that they wanted to avoid severely penalizing people who make honest mistakes in filing their taxes, because tax law is hopelessly complicatedLast edited by thewriteranon; 12-05-2017, 09:51 PM.
"Fire is catching. If we burn, you burn with us!"
"I'm not going anywhere. I'm going to stay here and cause all kinds of trouble."
Katniss Everdeen
Christ our Passover has been sacrificed for us. Therefore let us keep the feast.
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Based on everything we know about this case, it's clear that Comey was looking for any reason at all to not indict Hillary even though people have been convicted for less.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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