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Yes. Mythicism Is Still A Joke

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  • Yes. Mythicism Is Still A Joke

    Should mythicism be treated seriously?

    The link can be found here.

    -----

    Should Mythicism be treated as a serious idea? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Over at New Testament scholar Larry Hurtado's blog, for some reason, Dr. Hurtado began writing about mythicism. I was curious to see what was said because NT scholars rarely say anything about mythicism for the same reason geologists would rarely say anything about Flat Earthers. The idea is simply considered a joke.*

    There's good and bad sides to this. The good is that NT scholars do have much more important things to do than to get involved in internet squabbles. One can understand them not wanting to take their time to deal with an idea that they do not think should be taken seriously, and they're right. The bad is that sadly, people are uninformed and they do take it seriously. This is the kind of idea that spreads on college campuses and on the internet among people who don't know how to do history.*

    Naturally, posting like this soon reaches the ears of prominent internet blogger Richard Carrier, the rare person who has a Ph.D. in a relevant field and holds to mythicism. Carrier takes the time to say that he wasn't going to engage one day because it was his birthday recently and there were orgies to be had. Others had responded, but it was time for him to take on Hurtado.

    "Surely you're joking! You wouldn't write a serious piece interacting with a highly established NT scholar and talk about having orgies would you?"

    Well, Richard Carrier would.

    Carrier also showed up on Hurtado's blog, to which Hurtado didn't even blink at it, but simply pointed out that his reading was highly off. That was last night and I have seen nothing new today about it and Hurtado has said that he has much more important interests to deal with. Who can blame him?

    As I said, the theory of mythicism is popular on the internet, but I think Hurtado could be right in that this is a last hurrah for mythicism, at least for now. While Carrier is the best the mythicist case has, it's not really saying much. Others in the field, both Christian and non-Christian, are looking and aren't really impressed. The only people that seem to be impressed are those who are already mythicists and atheists who want to hear what they already think.*

    Such it is with conspiracy theorists. You can see conservative and liberal Facebook pages that will show claims that are easily shown to be false, but many people on each side want to believe what they already believe. Mythicism is just that. It's a conspiracy theory for atheists. The evidence can sound convincing and persuasive if you don't understand history, but once you do, the whole thing falls and we all see that the emperor has no clothes.

    An interesting twist is that mythicism can be to history what solipsism is to philosophy. It's usually thought that when you get to solipsism in your philosophy, you've made a mistake somewhere. Mythicism can show us how history should be done by showing us how bad history is done. Perhaps this will further refine our criteria of history which I don't doubt will put Jesus in an even better light historically. After all, death could not defeat Him 2,000 years ago. There is no reason to think the historical method will today.

    There have been stories of soldiers of Japan who were unaware that the war had ended decades earlier. So it is that we have many mythicists fighting a battle today unaware that the war is already over and that the historicity of Jesus is solid bedrock. Hopefully, more will see before too long that the battle is already done, but my concern is that there will still be eternal casualties with those who do not know realize the facade that they've been sold.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    Mysticism and the pagan Christ thesis were what I grew up with. You got it right when you said that people are taught mysticism and that they do not know any better. College, reading apologetics, reading mythology, and knowing you guys has done a lot for me in more than just this field.

    Does carrier not feel ashamed? I feel ashamed when I lust after women. God help him.
    sigpic

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TheWall View Post
      Mysticism and the pagan Christ thesis were what I grew up with. You got it right when you said that people are taught mysticism and that they do not know any better. College, reading apologetics, reading mythology, and knowing you guys has done a lot for me in more than just this field.

      Does carrier not feel ashamed? I feel ashamed when I lust after women. God help him.
      He shows no indication of any shame, though he does strike me as insecure with having to brag about it.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
        He shows no indication of any shame, though he does strike me as insecure with having to brag about it.
        I felt uncomfortable telling folks about what tempts me. I figured folks would think I was a pervert. Even those that knew it felt awkward to tell. After the confession was done I felt better knowing they forgave me and prayed for me. My God it still tempts me.

        I think you are right that he is insecure. Perhaps he deep down wants to avoid questions about the soul because he doesn't want a divine foot in the door. Yes it is almost kierkegaardian his aestheticism he may not even know he is in despair. Or perhaps like Dorian grey he knows and has hardened his own heart. God help him.
        sigpic

        Comment


        • #5
          Seems to me that mythicism is a lazy person's argument. They don't want to deal with the actual points in theology or religion so they dismiss it all with a handwave.

          Comment


          • #6
            How about now?

            Comment


            • #7
              Mythicism is based on long discredited claims. It is like listening to a flat earth proponent but even dumber.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                Mythicism is based on long discredited claims. It is like listening to a flat earth proponent but even dumber.
                How dare you disparage the intelligence of JimL and Tassman that way!
                I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                  Should mythicism be treated seriously?

                  The link can be found here.

                  -----

                  Should Mythicism be treated as a serious idea? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

                  Over at New Testament scholar Larry Hurtado's blog, for some reason, Dr. Hurtado began writing about mythicism. I was curious to see what was said because NT scholars rarely say anything about mythicism for the same reason geologists would rarely say anything about Flat Earthers. The idea is simply considered a joke.*

                  There's good and bad sides to this. The good is that NT scholars do have much more important things to do than to get involved in internet squabbles. One can understand them not wanting to take their time to deal with an idea that they do not think should be taken seriously, and they're right. The bad is that sadly, people are uninformed and they do take it seriously. This is the kind of idea that spreads on college campuses and on the internet among people who don't know how to do history.*

                  Naturally, posting like this soon reaches the ears of prominent internet blogger Richard Carrier, the rare person who has a Ph.D. in a relevant field and holds to mythicism. Carrier takes the time to say that he wasn't going to engage one day because it was his birthday recently and there were orgies to be had. Others had responded, but it was time for him to take on Hurtado.

                  "Surely you're joking! You wouldn't write a serious piece interacting with a highly established NT scholar and talk about having orgies would you?"

                  Well, Richard Carrier would.

                  Carrier also showed up on Hurtado's blog, to which Hurtado didn't even blink at it, but simply pointed out that his reading was highly off. That was last night and I have seen nothing new today about it and Hurtado has said that he has much more important interests to deal with. Who can blame him?

                  As I said, the theory of mythicism is popular on the internet, but I think Hurtado could be right in that this is a last hurrah for mythicism, at least for now. While Carrier is the best the mythicist case has, it's not really saying much. Others in the field, both Christian and non-Christian, are looking and aren't really impressed. The only people that seem to be impressed are those who are already mythicists and atheists who want to hear what they already think.*

                  Such it is with conspiracy theorists. You can see conservative and liberal Facebook pages that will show claims that are easily shown to be false, but many people on each side want to believe what they already believe. Mythicism is just that. It's a conspiracy theory for atheists. The evidence can sound convincing and persuasive if you don't understand history, but once you do, the whole thing falls and we all see that the emperor has no clothes.

                  An interesting twist is that mythicism can be to history what solipsism is to philosophy. It's usually thought that when you get to solipsism in your philosophy, you've made a mistake somewhere. Mythicism can show us how history should be done by showing us how bad history is done. Perhaps this will further refine our criteria of history which I don't doubt will put Jesus in an even better light historically. After all, death could not defeat Him 2,000 years ago. There is no reason to think the historical method will today.

                  There have been stories of soldiers of Japan who were unaware that the war had ended decades earlier. So it is that we have many mythicists fighting a battle today unaware that the war is already over and that the historicity of Jesus is solid bedrock. Hopefully, more will see before too long that the battle is already done, but my concern is that there will still be eternal casualties with those who do not know realize the facade that they've been sold.

                  In Christ,
                  Nick Peters
                  Non-believers and athiests can easily make that same point Nick, i.e. that the only people that seem to be impressed with the idea that the bible is history are those who are already believers who want to hear what they already think. What it is in actuality is a myth woven through a history, unless you want to argue that long dead people really did climb out of their respective graves and conversed with the townspeople, or that thousands were fed with 1 fish, or that demons existed and that Jesus cast them out of people and into swine, or that the man jesus walked on water, or that he took off like a rocket ascending into outer space somewhere. Ya, I know, you do want to argue that, but it's just to silly for me waste my time arguing that point with you people any longer.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by JimL View Post
                    .. .. but it's just to silly for me waste my time arguing that point with you people any longer.
                    But you do not have any arguments, just assertions. I do not think this is a debate area take it to a forum that is.
                    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
                      But you do not have any arguments, just assertions.
                      Actually I do have arguments. For one thing to believe such outlandish things in this day and age is absolute idiocy. For another, the bible itself is nothing but a bunch of assertions made by the authors and repeated by you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by JimL View Post
                        Actually I do have arguments. For one thing to believe such outlandish things in this day and age is absolute idiocy. For another, the bible itself is nothing but a bunch of assertions made by the authors and repeated by you.
                        So is Herodotus. That doesn't stop the work from having historical value.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by psstein View Post
                          So is Herodotus. That doesn't stop the work from having historical value.
                          Did he write about any long dead people who had climbed out of their graves to chit chat with the townspeople? We don't believe everything actual historians have written either.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Actually I do have arguments. For one thing to believe such outlandish things in this day and age is absolute idiocy. For another, the bible itself is nothing but a bunch of assertions made by the authors and repeated by you.
                            Pure assertions, no arguments.
                            Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes. This is a debate forum. I encourage debate here.

                              Comment

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