Is it Illegal to Stand Up in Federal Building Lobbies?

[Leonhard]

Ever since 9/11 the various governments had to do something to show that they were doing something against terrorism. So they stepped up the security at airports aggressively. That explains the TSA's. Time for a reform.

[Cerebrum123]

Ever since 9/11 the various governments had to do something to show that they were doing something against terrorism. So they stepped up the security at airports aggressively. That explains the TSA's. Time for a reform.

I know why they did a lot of what they did, I just think it was the wrong way to go about things.

[Bill the Cat]

I was helping a homeless gentlemen "redocument" himself - he had been robbed of his wallet, anything providing identity, and had kinda fallen into a state of hopelessness.

It's a real bummer trying to prove who you are when you can't prove who you are.

We started at the county courthouse to get him a new birth certificate, but as much as that clerk wanted to help, all (I'll call him Jimmy) had to prove who he was was a faded copy of an expired out-of-state drivers license.

He was on probation for a fight he had with his brother (domestic violence - in my day we called that 'family') so we went to his probation office to see if we could get anything from them verifying who he was. After quite a bit of discussion, the receptionist said, "I can't give you anything to take over there, but I can email her something that might help".

We went back to the courthouse, and the clerk was smiling, and said she could now print a copy of his birth certificate from his birth county. YAY!!!!

Next, we went to DPS where he was going to apply for a State ID. The lady there was very helpful, looked him up in the system, and said, "you actually have an expired Texas driver's license - it would be quicker and cheaper to renew that". (He thought he forfeited his Texas DL when he acquired the out-of-state one)

Now, armed with an actual birth certificate AND a temporary proof of a Texas driver's license, we headed off to the local Social Security office.

That's where things went south.

They have an armed guard who acts as the welcoming committee. He's like the worst TSA employee you've ever met only 10 times more controlling and grouchy, and with a gun.

He growled at us that we have to sign in, then go sit down and watch the monitor for our "next" status. It was obviously going to be a long wait.

At one point, I noticed a kiosk that said "Online Self Help Here", and a computer terminal that appeared to be for public use. I suggested we check that out, and we sat down at the terminal. Mister Prison Guard was on us instantly, barking that he was going to have to tell "them" that we are on the computer, implying we would lose our place in line. I asked him if, in fact, we would lose our place in line, and he barked again "I'm going to tell them you're on the computer".

So, AGAIN I asked - will we lose our place in line if we try to find our answer here? He grunted, "no", and at that moment, one of "them" appeared at the window - a VERY nice lady who asked us what we were looking for, and very politely informed us that was not one of the things the kiosk computer would be able to do. I smiled, thanked her, and told her we would wait for our turn in line.

By this time, my back was aching, and I stood up to stretch. Mr Prison Guard was on me in an instant, ordering me to go outside if I want to stand up, but if I wanted to stay inside, I had to sit down. Say WHAT?!?!?!?!

I asked him, "Are you SERIOUS?" He repeated - "If you want to stand up - go out side (it was 35 degrees and windy) or sit down in the lobby".

SO....

I have been trying to find out if there is any written policy or law or any other kind authority for this !$#!^!^!% to make such a demand. Jimmy's number was called, and the lady was able to help him out in about 30 seconds, and we were getting ready to leave.

I WANTED to ask that guard "or what"? I have to sit down or WHAT? You're going to ARREST me? Beat me up? Shoot me?

I'm trying to figure out what legal authority he would have to enforce a "you have to sit down if you are in the lobby" policy. Or who does the SSA use for their security - the guy was armed, so, in Texas, that would have to be a certified police officer or federal officer or something. You cannot be in a federal building with a gun in Texas (or, I would imagine, in any state) unless you are a certified peace officer.

I've seen on Facebook where this same prison guard has demanded that mothers must not have bottle water, or they can't feed their babies, or they can't let their children stand up....

I really wonder what would happen if I had refused to sit down or go outside. And, yes, I wrote an official letter of complaint to the local SSA administrator.

There is no policy in the SSA's policy documents that dictates that patrons have to sit. It mentions "adequate safety and security factors", but unless it is spelled out clearly and visibly, the officer's private interpretation of this policy could have led him (and the administration) to get sued had he harassed you further. See here: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/ and https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0439527045

[thewriteranon]

The TSA is security theatre. They fail almost all of the tests put against them for finding explosives or weapons. When Y'hoshua and I were coming back from our honeymoon, they forced him to ship his swiss army knife (which has a tiny blade), despite the fact that the regulations allow for knives up to a few inches (his was well within regulation). Because they have no clue what they're doing. I've heard of TSA agents literally finding the job because it was advertised on pizza boxes. I plan to prep the official list of allowable items before I fly this time, because I need my take-as-needed anxiety medication. I don't have time to argue with the TSA.

[Sparko]

The TSA is security theatre. They fail almost all of the tests put against them for finding explosives or weapons. When Y'hoshua and I were coming back from our honeymoon, they forced him to ship his swiss army knife (which has a tiny blade), despite the fact that the regulations allow for knives up to a few inches (his was well within regulation). Because they have no clue what they're doing. I've heard of TSA agents literally finding the job because it was advertised on pizza boxes. I plan to prep the official list of allowable items before I fly this time, because I need my take-as-needed anxiety medication. I don't have time to argue with the TSA.

I am going to Germany next summer and I am getting the Global Entry thing. Where you do the background check here and then get TSA Precheck and can use a Kiosk at Customs to avoid all the search crap.

Costs $100 but worth it.

[Mountain Man]

I fly several times a year for work, and I hate it. I've never had a confrontation with TSA personnel, and I always treat them politely because I realize they're just doing their job, but going through the security gauntlet is still a time-wasting pain in the butt, and it doesn't make me feel any safer. I miss the good ol' days when you could stroll right up to the gate and walk on the plane without a hassle, but those are never coming back.

[Sparko]

I fly several times a year for work, and I hate it. I've never had a confrontation with TSA personnel, and I always treat them politely because I realize they're just doing their job, but going through the security gauntlet is still a time-wasting pain in the butt, and it doesn't make me feel any safer. I miss the good ol' days when you could stroll right up to the gate and walk on the plane without a hassle, but those are never coming back.

Yeah the whole point in flying was that it is supposed to be faster and easier than driving or taking a train. By the time you factor in the airport security and other wait times, it is one of the slowest ways to travel for shorter distances. A two hour wait to take a 30 minute shuttle flight is ridiculous.

[Cow Poke]

There is no policy in the SSA's policy documents that dictates that patrons have to sit. It mentions "adequate safety and security factors", but unless it is spelled out clearly and visibly, the officer's private interpretation of this policy could have led him (and the administration) to get sued had he harassed you further. See here: https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/ and https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0439527045

Thanks, Bill

I'm hearing more and more complaints about this -- one of them was an older couple in my church who had their grandbaby with them. The baby started fussing, so they let her sit on the floor with a set of oversized plastic car keys, and she was playing with those keys. The guard came over and told they the baby had to be in its own chair, or in their lap.

Seriously

[Cow Poke]

I fly several times a year for work, and I hate it. I've never had a confrontation with TSA personnel, and I always treat them politely because I realize they're just doing their job, but going through the security gauntlet is still a time-wasting pain in the butt, and it doesn't make me feel any safer. I miss the good ol' days when you could stroll right up to the gate and walk on the plane without a hassle, but those are never coming back.

Yeah, I fly a lot, too - not as much as I used to, but still at least a half dozen times a year. I've always believed in 'being friendly and polite gets you further', and MOST of the time I don't have a bit of trouble getting through security. It's always my wife! Her titanium knees always get the attention of TSA personnel, and they always seem to have to feel her all over, which really hacks her. There's not a whole lot that gets her upset, but that really seems to get her hacked.

[rogue06]

Yeah, I fly a lot, too - not as much as I used to, but still at least a half dozen times a year. I've always believed in 'being friendly and polite gets you further', and MOST of the time I don't have a bit of trouble getting through security. It's always my wife! Her titanium knees always get the attention of TSA personnel, and they always seem to have to feel her all over, which really hacks her. There's not a whole lot that gets her upset, but that really seems to get her hacked.

The very fact that she has endured you for all these years is testimony of her saint-like patience.

[Cow Poke]

The very fact that she has endured you for all these years is testimony of her saint-like patience.

I'm sayin!

[Celebrian]

I had one really bad experience with TSA early on. I was the last one to go through security of my group, and I was pulled over for "special treatment." They would not let me take my hand luggage (that went through x-ray) with me. I keep trying to watch it or get my family to get my luggage, and they kept yelling at me to look ahead and stop signaling. I tried to explain my fear of theft, and they said that didn't happen (yeah, right). I got a bit upset I'm afraid.

[Cow Poke]

OK, so just after 9/11, we were flying to Ohio with my granddaughter who was about 3 years old. TSA didn't exist yet, so the Texas National Guard was 'manning the rails' at the airport.

As we were getting ready to go through the screening, Heidi saw the soldiers standing there in full battle rattle, helmets, fully automatic weapons, etc, and froze. They were trying to make her go through the metal detector by herself, but she was afraid of the soldiers.

One of the guardsmen took off his helmet, and handed it to his buddy, along with his M-16, and got down on his knees, and called, "come on, honey, I'm a daddy too".

Heidi looked up at us, we nodded, and she went running right into his arms.

If only....