Daniel Shavers killer walks free.

[Adrift]

I should point out that from what I've read, the person shouting the contradictory and confusing instructions was actually a different officer than the one who shot him.

Yeah, that's actually a major point of the case. The guy giving commands, and the guy who shot were two different people. The guy giving the commands was heavily escalating the situation, making both the individual on the ground as well as his fellow officers incredibly nervous. In my opinion, he should have been investigated and probably charged as well. The commands were confusing, but sadly they weren't actually far off from what we were taught in Security Forces in the Air Force. It seems to me that the main reason they wanted the subjects to crawl to them was that they suspected that there were other armed gunmen in the room behind them, and they didn't want to take the risk of closing in and getting shot. Not to excuse the actions of these officers, but the main reason why so many cops are on edge is because so many cops are killed in the line of duty in the US compared to other nations. 135 in 2016 (which is way down from the numbers that were killed in the 70s and 80s, but still). Also, unlike Europe, our insane national gun violence makes everyone skittish in these sorts of scenarios.

[seer]

Also, unlike Europe, our insane national gun violence makes everyone skittish in these sorts of scenarios.

There is no such thing as "gun violence." Sheesh buddy...

[Obsidian]

The question is whether or not he committed murder, which is killing with premeditation and malice -- or as the Bible describes it, a willful and cunning attack -- and based on the evidence, the answer appears to be no.

Any knowing killing is second-degree murder under American law, or first-degree murder under biblical law. You keep making the same faulty points in ignorance -- even after they're pointed out to you. In the context of what you're talking about, "malice" just means intent to harm. Intent to harm is satisfied by the fact that the guy is shot with a gun.

And you keep using the word "evidence," even though you refuse to look at it. I don't have a lot of patience for willful ignorance. There's another term for it: Intellectual dishonesty.

[Obsidian]

But after all of the recent cop killings and terrorist attacks, I can't blame him for being nervous. He had no way to know if the kid had a gun or other weapon hidden down his pants.

This idea that cops can kill people, because they have "no way to know" what might happen if they don't, is absolutely wicked. You are condoning what the Bible calls murder. You don't see a gun, you don't shoot. Period.

[Mountain Man]

[Sparko]

Any knowing killing is second-degree murder under American law,

Uh no. It's not. Second degree murder is an unjustified killing done with malice but without premeditation.

[Sparko]

This idea that cops can kill people, because they have "no way to know" what might happen if they don't, is absolutely wicked. You are condoning what the Bible calls murder. You don't see a gun, you don't shoot. Period.

Sometimes they don't have time or warning to wait until a gun is pulled on them.

They warned this guy previously not to reach behind his back. It was a stupid mistake on the kid's part and on the cop's. But it was not murder. Cops have a right to protect themselves.

[Mountain Man]

..."malice" just means intent to harm.

No it doesn't.

Legal definition: "evil intent on the part of a person who commits a wrongful act injurious to others"

Old Testament law uses the phrase "lying in wait" (suggesting premeditation) and killing someone with "cunning" (skill employed in a shrewd or sly manner, as in deceiving; craftiness; guile).

None of this applies in this case. Thus, the officer was acquitted of murder charges.

[firstfloor]

[Cow Poke]

Yeah, because EVERY arrest by police ends up exactly like this.

[firstfloor]

Yeah, because EVERY arrest by police ends up exactly like this.

[Cow Poke]

The police are far too quick to resort to the use of lethal force. We have seen this so many times.

It's kinda like airplane crashes. It's horrific when it happens, and nobody excuses it, but it's not the norm. THAT is why it gets so much attention when one crashes.

Wow, an unattributed quote! Impressive.

Yababadoo - Fred Flintstone

The US has a violence problem, and a racism problem, and a policing problem, and the bodies will just keep piling up.

Actually, they don't pile up - they get properly buried. Not sure what you do with them in your country.

[firstfloor]

It's horrific ...

I agree. More guns leads to more gun violence. We must assume that you like it that way for some reason.

[Terraceth]

Yeah, that's actually a major point of the case. The guy giving commands, and the guy who shot were two different people. The guy giving the commands was heavily escalating the situation, making both the individual on the ground as well as his fellow officers incredibly nervous. In my opinion, he should have been investigated and probably charged as well. The commands were confusing, but sadly they weren't actually far off from what we were taught in Security Forces in the Air Force. It seems to me that the main reason they wanted the subjects to crawl to them was that they suspected that there were other armed gunmen in the room behind them, and they didn't want to take the risk of closing in and getting shot. Not to excuse the actions of these officers, but the main reason why so many cops are on edge is because so many cops are killed in the line of duty in the US compared to other nations. 135 in 2016 (which is way down from the numbers that were killed in the 70s and 80s, but still). Also, unlike Europe, our insane national gun violence makes everyone skittish in these sorts of scenarios.

I thought this was an interesting read:
https://www.redstate.com/patterico/2...t-perspective/

Its conclusions are ultimately ambivalent as to whether or not the officer who actually shot him was guilty of a crime, but is quite blunt in admitting that the sergeant yelling out the orders "has no business being a police officer." Did anything at all happen to him? It seems all the attention went to the shooter, but I'm not sure if anything at all happened to the shouter.

[Cow Poke]

I agree. More guns leads to more gun violence. We must assume that you like it that way for some reason.

You know what happens when you "assume", yes?