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Daniel Shavers killer walks free.

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  • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
    What the heck is wrong with you? Why would you use a video of a grieving family to instigate a fellow Christian? That's sick man..
    It is article about another example of issue he cares a lot about.

    You need to grow up
    Edited by a Moderator

    Moderated By: QuantaFille

    You know better by now.

    ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
    Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

    Last edited by QuantaFille; 12-31-2017, 01:20 PM.
    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      The officer appeared to have reason to believe his life and the life of his fellow officer was in danger. Therefore, it appears he acted in self-defense. Therefore, the charge of murder was not proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

      Even someone with a mail-order law degree should understand this.
      How was this a reasonable conclusion? He was wearing basketball shorts. It would have been obvious if he had a gun in the pocket
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
        You need to grow up.
        You need to stop smearing!!!

        demi shares article of incident, similar to incident shared in post #1 of thread
        Adrift: 'oh, you're trying to use video of grieving family'.

        Edited by a Moderator

        Moderated By: QuantaFille

        If your post is moderated, do not post the same thing again.

        ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
        Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

        Last edited by QuantaFille; 01-01-2018, 09:39 AM.
        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

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        • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
          These police murders will continue to happen so long as Christians like Sparko and Mountain man keep condoning them.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Obsidian View Post
            Again they used the exact same excuse: The unarmed, completely innocent man was making movements around his waistline (this time at his own front door). In reality, that is simply not a biblical justification to kill someone. The people who condone this police policy have blood on their hands. It needs to change. And the officers at fault need to be put to death.
            wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

            The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

            Here is what the cop saw:

            ScreenHunter_.jpg

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
              wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

              The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

              Here is what the cop saw:

              [ATTACH=CONFIG]25769[/ATTACH]
              I think he's referring to the incident that demi-conservative posted about, about the guy who got swatted by the Call of Duty kid.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                wow. You obviously don't know the details of this incident nor did you bother to watch the video in question. There was no "front door" - this was in the hallway of a hotel. You have no idea what the details are yet you feel qualified to judge the police in the situation? You are either just someone who hates the police or an insane troll.

                The cop who fired should not have shot, it was nerves and the guy not obeying orders, and from the cops point of view, he could not see his waistband just that he was reaching backwards. It should have been handled differently (like cow poke said, probably by making him stay still and going to him instead of making him move) but it was not murder.

                Here is what the cop saw:

                [ATTACH=CONFIG]25769[/ATTACH]
                I know the details of the incident. The cop who shot him should be in prison for murder, the idiot barking stupid orders should be his cellmate.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                  I think he's referring to the incident that demi-conservative posted about, about the guy who got swatted by the Call of Duty kid.
                  OK never mind. been away from this thread for about a week.

                  Comment


                  • I'm not going to re-read all 120+ posts, so this may have been said before, but what really upsets me about this is how preventable it was.

                    There were SIX officers in the hallway, and they allowed this incident to be dragged out for nearly FIVE minutes, during which time a wide range of complicated and conflicting commands were yelled at a man who was intoxicated, yet trying to be compliant at every step. You can tell he was scared to death.

                    I still train with a swat team, my son-in-law is their commander. The job of the swat team (and even any officers initially responding) is to take control of the situation and bring order out of chaos. That didn't happen here.

                    I've heard it argued that the officers were concerned somebody else might be down the hall, but there were SIX OFFICERS lined up, and plenty of opportunity for cover while one or two of them went and cuffed the suspect. (One of the officers may have been removed from action because of the subdued woman being taken in custody, but that still leaves FIVE officers, guns drawn, at the ready)

                    Rather than have the man lay face down, and somebody approach and cuff him, they order him to crawl forward. At several points, both suspects tried to ask questions for clarification, and were shouted to "shut up - this is not a conversation". One of the things that is hammered into our officers is "talk to them like they're people". These people were not talked to like people. It was more like they were enemy combatants on a battlefield.

                    When the guy is told to crawl forward, you'll notice that this means he approaches the woman's purse, which she had dropped about 4 feet in front of him. No officer in his right mind would order somebody to crawl toward something like that, where there could conceivably be a weapon or anything.

                    From a police incident report written by a Mesa Police Officer watching the video...

                    Shaver could be partially seen walking from the alcove into the hallway a split second after Sgt. Langley shouted for them to stop. Shaver raised his hands in the air prior to any further command, round the alcove into the hallway and immediately dropped to his knees with his hands in the air facing the officers … Sgt. Lanley shouted for both of them to get on the ground. Shaver placed his hands in front of him and laid down on the ground on the south side of the hallway with his hands extended above his head. In the video, Shaver appeared to be wearing a dark colored shirt and dark shorts. No weapon was visible in the video, but also it was not clear Shaver did not have a weapon from the camera view. Shaver was, however, obviously compliant and offered no resistance at that point.

                    Sgt. Langley asked Shaver if there was anyone else in the room and Shaver answered that there was no one else in the room … Sgt. Langley then calmly asked if both of them could understand him … Sgt. Langley then stated, “Alright, if you make another mistake, there is a very severe possibility you are both going to get shot, do you understand?”

                    Shaver responded “Yes” to this question … Sgt. Langley then began to talk when Shaver started to ask a question by saying “What’s––”. Sgt. Langley told Shaver to shut up and stated that he was not there to be tactful and diplomatic with Shaver and they need to obey his commands. At that point, Shaver’s outstretched arms had both palms facing up so the officers could see his hands. As Sgt. Langley was saying they needed to obey his commands. Shaver moved both his arms in front of his face in a similar manner to what would occur when someone is lying on their stomach and intending to rest their head in their crossed arms. Sgt. Langley took note of this and asked Shaver if he had told Shaver to move. Shaver immediately moved his hand back out in front of him with his palms facing up and said, “I’m sorry. No, sir.”

                    Sgt. Langley then ordered Shaver to place his hands on the back of his head and interlace his fingers. Shaver was again compliant. Sgt. Langley then told Shaver to cross his left foot over his right foot. Shaver complied with this but appeared confused as to which foot Sgt. Langley had ordered him to cross. He crossed his feet both ways before finally crossing his feet as Sgt. Langley had instructed. Sgt. Langley then asked again who else was in the room and Shaver responded with “nobody.”

                    Sgt. Langley then asked if both of them were drunk and they both responded that they were not … He then told Shaver that he turn his eyes down and look at the carpet and not move. He further instructed that Shaver needed to keep his fingers interlaced on his head and his legs crossed. Sgt. Langley then told Shaver that if he moved, it would be considered a threat and the officers would have to deal with that and Shaver “may not survive it.” Shaver acknowledged with “yes sir” when asked if he understood this.


                    One thing that I can't seem to get clarification in is that the officer writing the incident report refers to "16 minutes and 40 seconds into the recording" as the time just before the fatal shooting. I have to assume that we're watching 5 of the final minutes of that 16 minutes, which probably began as the officers arrived on the scene and were setting up. I really don't know.

                    The incident report continues...

                    Sgt. Langley could then be heard telling Shaver to crawl towards him. Sgt. Langley shouted this command and Shaver again dropped to his hands and knees and again can audibly be heard sobbing “Yes, sir,” as he began to crawl forward. Shaver reached the area where Portillo’s purse was and his left hand moved across his body and around the purse in order to crawl past it. Shaver was audibly sobbing as he crawled. Officer Brailsford’s rifle was primarily pointed down the hall until this movement was made. Officer Brailsford then swung his rifle back towards Shaver where Shaver could be seen with his braced left hand and his right hand moving back towards his waist with his elbow raised behind him. Shaver’s head appeared to be down with his face looking at the carpet. What appeared to be multiple voices, including Sgt. Langley’s, then began to say “Don’t” as Shaver’s hand moved back toward the front of his body. When his hand moves toward the front it is very slightly balled and his thumb is towards the top. Officer Brailsford fired his first shot as Shaver’s hand was moving toward the front of his body and as at least one officer was heard saying, “Don’t.”


                    Again, "in the moment" (and trying not to "Monday morning quarterback") it's entirely possible that the officer thought Shaver was reaching for a gun, but in my opinion, highly unlikely.

                    The fact is that only ONE of the five (or six) officers fired. In a situation where 5 or 6 officers believe there is a credible, immediate and deadly threat, there is usually a hail of gunfire from multiple officers, as each is reacting to what he sees at the time, and there's no coordination "OK, you guys hold your fire, I'll take the shot", etc. It's usually just a hail of gunfire. But only one officer fired.

                    Again, I'm about as pro-police as they come, still serving as police chaplain and closely involved with two police departments, city and county, along with a multi-jurisdictional task force. I've been keeping up with after action reports, and this situation has actually been used in a couple of training episodes I've attended.

                    It is pretty much described as "a really good example of a really bad police action".
                    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                    Comment

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