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  • #31
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Given Jesus was a brown-skinned anti-war socialist who gave away free healthcare and spent much of his ministry critiquing the rich people and saying they were going to hell... I think a lot of the 'Christians' in this forum would have big issues with Jesus were he alive today.


    Yeah Jesus was all big government. He worked for the Sanhedren and Rome spreading social programs and taxing the rich.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Yeah Jesus was all big government. He worked for the Sanhedren and Rome spreading social programs and taxing the rich.
      If you read Acts, the early Christians set up a communist government where all resources were held by the government and given to each as they had need, and taxation was 100% and those failing to pay it were struck dead by God.

      Jesus' own attitudes to money etc are made pretty clear in the gospels.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        If you read Acts, the early Christians set up a communist government where all resources were held by the government
        wow

        Such profound ignorance

        The common holdings were held by the CHURCH and administered by Deacons.

        and given to each as they had need, and taxation was 100% and those failing to pay it were struck dead by God.
        More ignorance. It wasn't because they were not giving 100%, it's that the TWO individuals lied about it. They didn't have to give everything.

        Jesus' own attitudes to money etc are made pretty clear in the gospels.
        His attitude toward sin and repentance even more clear.

        You can't possibly be this stupid.
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          If you read Acts, the early Christians set up a communist government where all resources were held by the government and given to each as they had need, and taxation was 100% and those failing to pay it were struck dead by God.

          Jesus' own attitudes to money etc are made pretty clear in the gospels.
          They shared resources. whoopty do. It was entirely voluntary. Those who had shared with those who did not.
          - Ananias was struck dead because he and his wife LIED. The apostles said that they did not have to sell their land but they chose to. and they didn't have to give all the money but they claimed to. They lied.

          3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”


          You don't know the difference between socialism and charity do you? Socialism TAKES and shares and is done by the government. Charity GIVES and shares and is done by individuals.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            I am 100% honest. Drive yourselves to extinction by any means necessary. :)
            We shall see as the thread continues whether this change is meaningful. You are proposing going from a Christian to libertarian anarchist. Are you going to change your faith designation?
            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

            go with the flow the river knows . . .

            Frank

            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              The common holdings were held by the CHURCH and administered by Deacons.
              Yes, the church was the governing body.

              His attitude toward sin and repentance even more clear.
              He actually spends the plurality of the time in the gospels talking about helping the poor. That's the biggest topic of his teachings in the gospels. Years ago I actually literally listed out, tagged and counted every verse in the gospels and then made pie charts and things to see what topics were emphasized in his ministry.

              Of course, it is true that he does mention sin and repentance. But he doesn't do so in any way that remotely matches the modern evangelical teachings on such issues. (e.g. he didn't believe that every person was deeply sinful in God's eyes or was hell-bound, he thought that anyone who was kind and generous to those who were in need would go to heaven, he though that those who were sinning could repent of their evil ways and live correctly and God would freely pardon them because God was a kind and forgiving father, he didn't think that his death on the cross or his blood were required to allow forgiveness) He thought that rich people who were being nasty to poor people could repent of their evil ways and be kind to the poor instead. An example of this is the story of Zacchaeus the tax collector, where that happens and so Jesus proclaims that "salvation has come to this house".
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Yes, the church was the governing body.
                My church is an autonomous self governing body - 100% different from "the government". Perhaps you're unaware of the oft cited principle of "the separation of church and state".

                And it wasn't 100% tax, either - Ananias sold "a piece of property" - not everything he had. He then conspired with his wife to (using your analogy) file a phony tax return.

                But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? 4 While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.” 5 When Ananias heard these words, he fell down and breathed his last. And great fear came upon all who heard of it.


                This is not some of your best work.
                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  They shared resources. whoopty do. It was entirely voluntary.
                  Well, becoming a Christian was voluntary yes. But for those who were Christians participated in the Christian community there and having socialized resources administered by a central governing body was how that community functioned. Today we would call that a 'commune' and describe the government of it as 'communist'.

                  You don't know the difference between socialism and charity do you?
                  I feel safe in saying you don't know the definition of socialism. I did a post recently in which I explained 3 completely different and mutually exclusive meanings of socialism as a political idea.

                  Socialism TAKES and shares and is done by the government. Charity GIVES and shares and is done by individuals.
                  You're thinking of communism rather than socialism per se. But okay, that's a possible way of distinguishing two words.

                  I suspect you're being pretty anachronistic in how you then proceed to try to interpret the bible through a lens of modern libertarian political ideology that emphases individual voluntary choice. Jesus doesn't go around teaching "look I kind of think it's important that the poor are helped, but what's more important by far is your choice to help the poor and that that be a personal decision you make and that it not be forced on you by Big Government, and the voluntary nature of that choice is far more important to me than actually seeing the poor get helped". On the contrary, it is clear that Jesus' primary goal is to see the poor get helped and he uses many methods to achieve that (critiquing the rich, encouraging people to give to the poor, setting up an organisation to help the poor etc). There's almost zero basis for any libertarian political theory in the NT. Whereas it's pretty much 100% marxist through and through, only nastier toward the rich than Marx ever was (Jesus is condemning them to hell, Marx just expected them to be killed in the inevitable political uprising of the poor).
                  Last edited by Starlight; 12-13-2017, 07:51 AM.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by cow poke View Post
                    you can't possibly be this stupid.
                    ecree.
                    My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      Well, becoming a Christian was voluntary yes.
                      FINALLY, a true statement!

                      But those who were Christians participated in the Christian community there and having socialized resources administered by a central governing body was how that community functioned. Today we would call that a 'commune' and describe the government of it as 'communist'.
                      But, obviously not the "communism" we know today. There were special needs, and the CHURCH community responded in love, without a "government" assessing taxes and redistributing wealth.

                      The Church was meeting the needs of its people.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
                        ecree.
                        Yeah, I thought about that after I typed it.
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                          Years ago I actually literally listed out, tagged and counted every verse in the gospels and then made pie charts and things to see what topics were emphasized in his ministry.
                          Of course you did. You are obsessed with charts and polls that prove exactly what you want to believe. Even if you have to selectively choose what stats to use and which ones to ignore.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Of course you did. You are obsessed with charts and polls that prove exactly what you want to believe. Even if you have to selectively choose what stats to use and which ones to ignore.
                            Sparko what can you expect of someone who is on record as not caring what methodology is used by those who put out a study on how the NEWS is being reported by the different NEWS outlets.
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            I can't be bothered reading the study's methodology, but in the past similar studies I've seen have only analyzed the 'Fox News' program on the Fox News channel and have ignored the fact that other programs on the channel (Fox and Friends, Outnumbered, O'Reilly Factor, Hannity etc) spend their entire shows raving about Trump's greatness. I assume that is what is occurring with this study also. Anyone who watches the Fox News channel in general knows that the people there would gladly let Trump sexually assault them and would blame the democrats for it happening.


                            When I pointed out that it was only NEWS shows that were being studied.
                            Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                            Comparison is still valid unfortunately for the close minded fools like Starlight.

                            From the OP
                            On the broadcast side of the media spectrum, Fox News provided the most even-handed coverage, with 52 percent anti-Trump coverage.

                            To arrive at the percentages, Harvard obtained data from Media Tenor, which “codes” media according to its topic, source, and tone. The broadcast portion of the study accounts for reporting on CNN’s The Situation Room, CBS Evening News, Fox’s Special Report, and NBC Nightly News, but does not represent talk show coverage. Newspaper analysis incorporates all sections but obituaries, sports, and letters to the editor.

                            http://dailycaller.com/2017/05/19/ha...nstream-media/

                            https://shorensteincenter.org/news-c...0a9d-189799085
                            he seemed to be saying that opinion shows were on par with NEWS shows in a way to get NEWS.
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            RTT has already confirmed I was right, with a quote that said the study didn't include talk shows.
                            I suspect that Starlight was saying he was right about not accepting that study due to them not using any opinion shows.


                            He seemed to think that opinion shows should be considered in the same sphere as NEWS shows.
                            http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post444091
                            Last edited by RumTumTugger; 12-13-2017, 10:09 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by RumTumTugger View Post
                              Sparko what can you expect of someone who is on record as not caring what methodology is used by those who put out a study on how the NEWS is being reported by the different NEWS outlets.
                              http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post443352

                              When I pointed out that it was only NEWS shows that were being studied. you know the shows and papers where journalist are supposed to give their readers and listeners the FACTS and let them decide what to think about them; not tell them what to think. But then Starlight only wants to watch and read sources that tell him what to think.

                              He seemed to think that opinion shows should be considered in the same sphere as NEWS shows.
                              http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...l=1#post444091
                              Opinion shows should be considered, as you put it, "in the same sphere" as NEWS shows. Always be suspect.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                Opinion shows should be considered, as you put it, "in the same sphere" as NEWS shows. Always be suspect.
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                ...the media followed the rumors ...
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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