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Thread: So, the kids are getting older...

  1. #21
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    The evidence says otherwise, that Strobel set out to sell a book targeting the Christian market. Calling oneself an ex-anti-whatever is a marketing ploy. "The Case for ..." books are deliberately patterned after the pretense that Strobel is a lawyer, which is similarly untrue.

    The Case for Christ contains no notable contrarian voices, as would be expected in an attempt to disprove a Christian doctrine. Instead, it focuses exclusively on an admittedly reasonable range of contemporary Christian apologists, from Blomberg to Metzger. It's better than Josh McDowell, if you squint a bit, but not by much, and by no means as good as reading Blomberg or Metzger directly. While it may have some utility as a defense of the Christian faith, it's essentially useless as an evangelical tool.

    Not recommended.


    But none of this is responsive to the OP, which instead asked a pair of questions.

    What are the topics you find the most difficult to explain about religious or non-religious beliefs to your children?

    Do any theists here believe the table is actually tilted in an atheists favor and that it is harder for the theist?

    I don't have kids and I'm not a theist, but I'd venture to say the tables, which have historically been heavily tilted toward supernatural belief, have more recently been moving in the other direction, making it less difficult to openly subscribe to atheism.

    Then again, the increase in quantity of atheists, especially among the youngsters, has had an adverse effect on quality. The old IIDB was chock-a-block with PhDs and other advanced degrees. Today's young atheists spend their time commenting on youtube.
    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    Good to see you posting again, SMP. Have you kept up your readings on ancient Israelite religion? Those were good threads.
    I have from time to time, but I've exhausted most sources in English. Still very interested and still look for new books to read.

  2. #22
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeproof View Post
    Thats is fine, but the sky hook is much more implausible. To the OP, what do you find difficult to explain to children about your religious beliefs?
    It is tough to tell what you are responding tok fella.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  3. #23
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    The evidence says otherwise, that Strobel set out to sell a book targeting the Christian market. Calling oneself an ex-anti-whatever is a marketing ploy. "The Case for ..." books are deliberately patterned after the pretense that Strobel is a lawyer, which is similarly untrue.

    The Case for Christ contains no notable contrarian voices, as would be expected in an attempt to disprove a Christian doctrine. Instead, it focuses exclusively on an admittedly reasonable range of contemporary Christian apologists, from Blomberg to Metzger. It's better than Josh McDowell, if you squint a bit, but not by much, and by no means as good as reading Blomberg or Metzger directly. While it may have some utility as a defense of the Christian faith, it's essentially useless as an evangelical tool.

    Not recommended.
    I'd second this. It's not a convincing book as it is unless you already agree with him. I've said this before, but there are two excellent history/NT scholars interviewed (Metzger and Yamauchi), with the majority being relatively unknown, even to people in the field.

  4. Amen Scrawly amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    He set out, investigative reporter that he was, to disprove the resurrection.
    That is not what he says in the book.

    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    The evidence for it was too conclusive.
    So he says.

    Quote Originally Posted by mossrose View Post
    Perhaps you should be asking your fellow unbelievers how they raise their kids to be little atheists.
    It is of no personal interest to me. I'm not raising any kids.

  6. #25
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeproof View Post
    ...what do you find hard to teach your kids about your religious beliefs.
    I don't find anything particularly difficult. The beauty of Christianity is that at its most basic level, it is so beautifully simple that even a child can understand it, yet it is sufficiently complex that you could study it for a lifetime and still not have learned it all. It's one of the reasons why I find it to be such an intellectually stimulating worldview.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  7. Amen Adrift, KingsGambit, Rushing Jaws amen'd this post.
  8. #26
    tWebber stfoskey15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by showmeproof View Post
    I was a former frequent poster, but have had different interests and priorities arise. I am an atheist, happily married (now 14yrs) to a Christian. We have three children (9, 5, and 2ish). I am frequently asked by 9 and 5 about why I do not believe. I find this a difficult question to answer without an extrordinary amount of detail. I keep whittling down my answer trying to get it in a ballpark they can understand. By time I think I have the right balance, the explanation is so diluted that I find it unsatisfactory. I am sure some believers could argue the same and be right in their explanatory abilities and similar frustrations (but wrong in their conclusions 😎).

    My main reasons for atheism reside in molecular biology, chemistry, and evolution.

    Other reasons abound in History and the evolution of religions (especially Judaism).

    What are the topics you find the most difficult to explain about religious or non-religious beliefs to your children? Being an atheist, I think I have a steeper hill to climb in explanatory requirements and a theist has a built-in backdoor with hyperactive agency detection; as any parent, who has to reassure their children that its perfectly okay to go upstairs and the noise they heard is just the furnace, can attest. Do any theists here believe the table is actually tilted in an atheists favor and that it is harder for the theist?
    Maybe go at it from an angle of historical inaccuracies in the Bible, or alternatively how things that seem to have a supernatural explanation can actually have a natural explanation.
    Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

    "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

    "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

  9. #27
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stfoskey15 View Post
    Maybe go at it from an angle of historical inaccuracies in the Bible, or alternatively how things that seem to have a supernatural explanation can actually have a natural explanation.
    Would that be things like "there was never a pro-consul by the name of Pilate?" That story was doing the rounds even into the late 1980s, despite proof to the contrary being found in the early 1960s.
    Or perhaps "There was never a King David" - proof to the contrary is less than 5 years old (I think), so it would be no surprise if that story was still doing the rounds.

    So - what historical inaccuracies would be under consideration?
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  10. #28
    tWebber stfoskey15's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Would that be things like "there was never a pro-consul by the name of Pilate?" That story was doing the rounds even into the late 1980s, despite proof to the contrary being found in the early 1960s.
    Or perhaps "There was never a King David" - proof to the contrary is less than 5 years old (I think), so it would be no surprise if that story was still doing the rounds.

    So - what historical inaccuracies would be under consideration?
    I've heard the Book of Joshua is pretty inaccurate, as a whole, and AFAIK there isn't any good evidence for the exodus as described in the Book of Exodus. I also heard that there is no evidence for a census around the time of Jesus' birth. Also just the whole thing about many books of the Bible being written centuries after the events they describe took place, and so should be taken with a grain of salt.
    Find my speling strange? I'm trying this out: Simplified Speling. Feel free to join me.

    "Nature has placed mankind under the governance of two sovereign masters, pain and pleasure. It is for them alone to point out what we ought to do, as well as to determine what we shall do."-Jeremy Bentham

    "We question all our beliefs, except for the ones that we really believe in, and those we never think to question."-Orson Scott Card

  11. #29
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stfoskey15 View Post
    I've heard the Book of Joshua is pretty inaccurate, as a whole, and AFAIK there isn't any good evidence for the exodus as described in the Book of Exodus. I also heard that there is no evidence for a census around the time of Jesus' birth. Also just the whole thing about many books of the Bible being written centuries after the events they describe took place, and so should be taken with a grain of salt.
    Ah ... The old "so I've been told" story.
    The book of Joshua: this is the first time that I have encountered an objection - it will take some looking into.
    No census around the time of Jesus' birth - unless that is, the chroniclers (or rather, Luke, given that Matthew doesn't mention a census) have it right: which would make Jesus in his mid 40s at the time of his death.
    The exodus: If the Bible it is correct, it cannot have occurred during the time of Ramses II: he lived long after the time specified in the Biblical record. Of seven markers that need to be completed, only one stood at the time of Ramses II. All seven are fulfilled in the time frame that the Bible specifies, that of Tuthmosis III. But, as noted by
    https://ancientneareast.org/2012/04/28/230/
    King Solomon died in 930 BCE after a reign of 40 years, so we can place his ascension to the throne in 970 BCE. He began to build the great Temple in Jerusalem four years later, in 966 BCE. To this last number we can add the 480 years specified in 1 Kings 6:1, and we arrive at a date of 1446 BCE (Dever 2003: 8). This immediately presents a problem, however.

    A date of 1446 BCE places us square in the reign of the great Egyptian king Menkheperre Tuthmosis (1479-1424 BCE), otherwise known as Tuthmosis III. Some fringe writers have in fact tried to paint Tuthmosis III as the pharaoh of Exodus, but the real problem here is, Tuthmosis III was the greatest warrior pharaoh of Egyptian history ...
    Tuthmosis III could not have been the pharaoh of Exodus. As it is, almost no self-respecting, gainfully employed, professional historian would try to argue otherwise.


    There is something of truth to the allegation that many books of the Bible were written centuries after the events they describe, - if you take the oldest OT copies that we have available to be the time of original writing. During the Babylonian exile, a new Hebrew alphabet was developed. Naturally enough, the existing texts were transcribed using the new alphabet. So yes - we don't have any of the earlier texts available to us. However, it would be hard to ascribe historical events that have been accurately portrayed in the Bible to mere lucky guesses (including the actual fall itself of Jericho which, as archaeological findings show, is accurately described in the Bible - and Jericho did not fall in the normal way. In short, to get it right, you pretty much had to be there to know what happened.)
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  12. #30
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    like "there was never a pro-consul by the name of Pilate?" That story was doing the rounds even into the late 1980s,
    I don't think so. Have you got a quotation from someone who actually believed it?
    Last edited by Doug Shaver; 01-10-2018 at 03:36 AM.

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