Originally posted by Jorge
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Forum Rules: Here
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What is Creation Science or "Biblical Creation"? Simple words, but how to flesh out?
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"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostA bit ironic and a lot hypocritical coming from someone who would regularly talk of tar and feathering or burning at the stake those who disagreed with your YEC view. Your froth-filled diatribe against Ken Miller was quite a sight to behold as were your numerous calls for Eugene Scott to be burned as a witch[1]
Jorge
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostCould you link to that? As i said, as far as i'm aware, the upper limit for stellar formation is 150 solar masses. If someone's saying it's significantly different from that, i'd be interested in hearing why.
I don't have much time as I'm getting ready for a 3-week business trip beginning tomorrow early morning. I'll try ... if not, then when I return. Kindly remind me.
Jorge
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Originally posted by rwatts View PostSo when you write the silly things you do, and make all the mistakes you do, then you are providing us with messages from God. So why should God be trusted in anything he says, given this? We can't trust you. Now you attribute your untrustworthiness to God.
And if under such impeccable guidance, you can write such silly things and make so many mistakes, then why on earth do you think the ancient writers of the Bible were immune to this, given the same impeccable guidance?
I think that, if God exists, he has nothing to do with your rants and ramblings, given the mistakes you make and the silly things you say. God is supposed to be an infallible source of pure truth.
So why are you attributing your nonsense to God?
Jorge
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This is what I found:
http://www.universetoday.com/10247/u...-on-star-mass/
And: http://www.space.com/858-study-stars-size-limit.html
And, see page 3, column 2: http://www.astro.caltech.edu/~george...llarmasses.pdf
K54
P.S. Jorge, now PLEASE get back to answering my question "What does it mean when Elohim says 'let there be light'" from a Biblical Scientific Creation perspective.
Thank you!
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYou're a drunken buffoon, Roland. Stop pestering me.
Jorge
Impact craters - alleged challenge to YEC
Why yes, I believe you were that drunken buffoon.
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Why does Jorge fixate on "sniffing Darwin's dirty socks", "snorting", and alcohol consumption? Those and calling into question a participant's intellect xor integrity is, as far as I know, NOT a valid debate tactic. Is he a recovering alcoholic or something???
Now, why can't he answer my simple questions? 1) A testable hypothesis for ID and 2) what does "Elohim said 'Let there be light'" mean "literally" and unambiguously?
Flummoxed...
K54
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostWhy does Jorge fixate on "sniffing Darwin's dirty socks", "snorting", and alcohol consumption? Those and calling into question a participant's intellect xor integrity is, as far as I know, NOT a valid debate tactic. Is he a recovering alcoholic or something???
Now, why can't he answer my simple questions? 1) A testable hypothesis for ID and 2) what does "Elohim said 'Let there be light'" mean "literally" and unambiguously?
Flummoxed...
K54
He is the undisputed king of the pointless one-line drive-by insults though.
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYou're a drunken buffoon, Roland. Stop pestering me.
Jorge
So let's get back to what klaus54 is after:-
Originally posted by klaus54Now, why can't he answer my simple questions? 1) A testable hypothesis for ID and 2) what does "Elohim said 'Let there be light'" mean "literally" and unambiguously?
Flummoxed...Last edited by rwatts; 04-26-2014, 06:02 PM.
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostYou neglected to mention -- on purpose, I'm sure -- that on more than one occasion I qualified such statements (tar and feathering, etc.) as figurative and/or in jest. Of course, since presenting that evidence wouldn't serve your agenda, you conveniently fail to mention it. So what else is new?
Jorge
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostWhy does Jorge fixate on "sniffing Darwin's dirty socks", "snorting", and alcohol consumption? Those and calling into question a participant's intellect xor integrity is, as far as I know, NOT a valid debate tactic. Is he a recovering alcoholic or something???
1) You're drunk / high on drugs
2) You're too stupid / ignorant / dishonest to understand
3) Explaining is a waste of time / someone is paying you to waste my time.
4) This assertion is true because I said so
5) This assertion is even truer because I said so twice
6) I already provided evidence (in huge detail) but I won't repeat it or link to it.
If you look over his responses on this thread you'll see that little has changed.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostBack on the pre-Crash Tweb a guide was devised describing Jorge's typical response that appear to make up most of Jorge's posts:
1) You're drunk / high on drugs
2) You're too stupid / ignorant / dishonest to understand
3) Explaining is a waste of time / someone is paying you to waste my time.
4) This assertion is true because I said so
5) This assertion is even truer because I said so twice
6) I already provided evidence (in huge detail) but I won't repeat it or link to it.
If you look over his responses on this thread you'll see that little has changed.
K54
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Originally posted by Jorge View PostWhy don't you just come out, Jim? ... you know, just as Sylas did. I remember exchanging posts with Sylas when he was in your camp and I 'predicted' that he was on the path towards abandoning God altogether. When he finally made his announcement, I for one was not the least bit surprised.
I have been out and public as an atheist from before Jorge knew of me and from before I had active internet involvement. I have no idea what Jorge is talking about here, but since I tend to pay him no attention I missed this bit of nonsense when it cropped up in the thread.
Jorge has repeated this claim a couple of times, I see from the thread; but it's totally without foundation. I quite possibly engaged with Jorge about 12 to 15 years ago on talk.origins, in which creationism was discussed. I was part of talk.origins from around 1993; and was an atheist throughout. Some of my colleagues back engaged in responding to nonsense from Jorge or others were Christians; but not me.
I admire and respect many Christians. Differences in belief don't matter all that much to me by comparison with differences/similarities in ways we treat one another and live our lives. For Jorge I have only contempt -- and that has NOTHING to do with his faith; only his crude and as far as I can see his totally unChristian manner of engagement with others.
Repeat: Jorge never knew me, or even knew of me, at any time before I was out and public as an atheist. I have always been more vocal over other subjects than my own personal lack of faith; it's quite possible to be following my writings anytime over the last 25 years or so and not be aware of my atheism if it happened not to be relevant to whatever topic was I focusing upon at the time. I've been an atheist for about 30 years; active on the internet for about 25.
SylasLast edited by sylas; 04-26-2014, 07:27 PM. Reason: Fixed grammar, added note on talk.origins, provided a better quote from Jorge
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Sylas,
Thanks for the clarification and your cordial demeanor.
Now, a quick question, not for my sake, rather for Jorge's and other strident YEC's benefit. Did "belief" (a noun that Jorge, et.al. would likely use) in Deep Time and cosmic and biological evolution have much to do with your de-conversion?
Thanks for your input on this.
K54
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Originally posted by klaus54 View PostNow, a quick question, not for my sake, rather for Jorge's and other strident YEC's benefit. Did "belief" (a noun that Jorge, et.al. would likely use) in Deep Time and cosmic and biological evolution have much to do with your de-conversion?
Of course, I am only a sample of one. I know others for who concerns with deep time has had this effect, but it was a total non-issue in my case.
Generalizations are risky, but from what I have seen in engaging this subject over many years...
It is comparatively common for young earth creationists to have a faith crisis on first encountering an open discussion of the subject in a context not dominated and lead by creationists. This crisis can resolve in a number of ways, such as (and not limited to):- loss of faith altogether
- reconciliation of faith with knowledge of deep time and biological evolution
- a firming of young earth creationist perspective and enthusiastic engagement with the conflicts over science
- adopting an essentially agnostic approach to deep time or science, and renewed focus on implications of faith for day to day life.
For Christians who were never young earth creationists (like myself) there are plenty of other points over which a faith crisis can arise, and more ways in which it can resolve. Creationism is certainly no way to avoid a faith crisis; in fact it can and does in many instance serve to precipitate crisis. That in itself is no kind of argument for or against anything in particular. Likewise, the idea that creationism will lead to a faith crisis, or that acceptance of science will lead to a faith crisis, just doesn't measure up against the diversity of experiences people have with, through or beyond a Christian faith.
Cheers -- sylas
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