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Thread: Has Support for Moore Stained Evangelicals?

  1. #11
    Caught in the Matrix
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikewhitney View Post
    Rumor has it that a Christianity Today editorial is in the works: What God needs to do next.
    Are they going to let god know?

  2. #12
    radical strawberry lao tzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Sometimes you can gain valuable clues by actually reading the article linked in the OP.

    He said that his readers seemed to agree with the thrust of his essay. The main criticism he received, he said, was one he agreed with: that he should have made it clearer that he was referring not to all Christians, but to evangelicals in particular.
    "... because mainline churches never had any integrity to begin with."

    Probably a bit harsher than he'd admit, but not far off the beliefs of many evangelicals. I've known evangelicals who allow that Anglicans, for example, are also Christians only grudgingly, and through gritted teeth. I think he wrote what was in his heart, originally.

    Why are we whispering, Pete?

    "There's baptists behind the wall. This is heaven; we're keeping them happy."

    I've seen exit poll numbers out of Alabama that say 80 percent of evangelicals and/or born-agains voted for Moore. That's not just high, it's higher than for Alabama Republicans as a whole, so high I'm tempted to think it was a fluke in the polling.

    My interest was piqued by seeing one of my "nieces" running circles around FB waving low quality debunkings of Moore's support amongst her fellow Christians. It was clear she, at least, found that support embarrassing. And then I saw the link to the CT article.
    There is no lao tzu

  3. #13
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    Why are we whispering, Pete?

    "There's baptists behind the wall. This is heaven; we're keeping them happy."
    No, no, no.....

    It's "Hey Pete, who's that group behind that wall?"

    "oh, that's the Church of Christ crowd - they think they're the only ones here".


    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  4. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  5. #14
    radical strawberry lao tzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    How bout you go to your room and work on the difference between atheist and agnostic. When ya got that figgered out, then you can pretend you know what Christians believe.
    In my experience, it's rare to hear a Christian describe the difference between atheists and agnostics in a way atheists and agnostics would endorse. To give yourself a decent chance of surprising me, you should start with the fact most atheists consider themselves agnostics.

    And so does the occasional theist.

    That said, I disagree with JimL. My primary source on American Christianity is the Pew Forum's Religious Landscape Study. There are significant differences in belief and practice between evangelicals and the remainder of American Christianity, on a host of issues, most due to differing views on the primacy of their sacred texts.


    And CP, it should go without saying that I prefer we avoid disparaging other posters in my threads. If you disagree with JimL, please correct him, or ignore him.
    There is no lao tzu

  6. #15
    radical strawberry lao tzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    No, no, no.....

    It's "Hey Pete, who's that group behind that wall?"

    "oh, that's the Church of Christ crowd - they think they're the only ones here".

    The difference being their wall was put up to make everyone else happy.
    There is no lao tzu

  7. Amen Cow Poke amen'd this post.
  8. #16
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    And CP, it should go without saying that I prefer we avoid disparaging other posters in my threads. If you disagree with JimL, please correct him, or ignore him.
    Yes, Mom.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  9. #17
    radical strawberry lao tzu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    It's sad that a surface glance is sufficient to stain anyone. Moore was damned in the court of public opinion, and anyone who supported him was tarred with the same brush. This despite the fact that Moore was not formally charged with anything, and that almost nobody supported him because he had allegedly done what he had been alleged to have done.
    The original WaPo story made clear the statute of limitations meant no charges, or civil suits, could proceed from the reporting. The only charge that could have been brought earlier was a misdemeanor. More, it was clear that only one of the original group of young women was accusing him of a crime, and that many if not most dated him with the express approval of a parent, and still appreciated his interest these many years later.

    I'm still of two minds on the more serious charges brought up later by the woman represented by Gloria Allred. She's admitted to editing the yearbook entry to memorialize the entry, she says, but if the editing was innocent, it should have been made clear at the outset, and a competent lawyer should have advised her to do so. Were it not for the support shown for her charges by another of the original women, who expressed appreciation for his company, I'd probably dismiss them entirely.

    Moore's comprehensive denials were unbelievable. He claims he didn't know a woman who had memorialized dating him in her diaries. Still, after hearing how one of your precious memories was being denied, there's some chance a woman might wish to strike back, perhaps unfairly, out of nothing more malicious than hurt feelings.

    I understand people behave differently with different company, still, I don't recognize the man who would grab her head and drag it toward his genitals as the same man who agreed to bring Ms. Corfman home when asked.

    I dunno.

    I do know there's no place in the senate for a man who feels free to ignore the supreme court. Separation of powers begins with the most basic separation: You don't go to war against another co-equal branch of government.

    That said, Christians hitching themselves to deeply flawed characters in hopes that they will enact parts of a Christian agenda are pretty much doomed to failure. We are in an effectively post-Christian culture, and the culture war has been lost for decades. See, e.g., Rod Dreher's The Benedict Option.
    That's a bit too much investment for me for this thread, but I might check it out later.

    I'm not intending to trivialize or disrespect Christian positions and beliefs by analogy to commercial branding, but the math works on either equally. Success can be measured as the product of share of mind and approval rate. They've succeeded in capturing share of mind.

    If I were acting as a consultant, I'd be telling them to promote their success stories, because of what's implied by what you're saying: Christians, and evangelicals in particular, in promoting themselves as the losers in the cultural war, are driving down their approval numbers.

    I'm not speaking here of the glam promotions by the Osteens and less toothy prosperity preachers, I'm thinking of portraits of ordinary people, not just happy with their lives, but made happy with their lives by following their faith.
    There is no lao tzu

  10. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.

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