Alien.

[Xavier]

I have heard that the word "Salvation" appears once in the Koran....

Another main difference.

Xavier

[bar Jonah]

Xavier:
I have heard that the word "Salvation" appears once in the Koran....

Another main difference.

Xavier

So does "baptism," but you don't see them getting baptized, do you?

[DivineOb]

Today @ 09:06 PM post located here
Abigail:

AA, how do I prove to you that my chocolate cake tastes great. I can tell you it does and you can listen to what people who have tasted it say. You can check up on all the ingredients and know that they are all good, but the final real proof will come when you actually try it out for yourself.

Yes, and I will have a very good way of knowing that the cake doesn't taste good -- my taste buds will tell me. Where is the analogue for religious belief? If I try your religion and "it doesn't work for me" will you accept that? Or will you insist that I wasn't sincere in my attempt?

When it comes down to prayer, I find a lot of people rationalise away a lot of the evidence for answered payer. which is really showing a bias in that we are forcing God to fit our presuppositions of how we think God should work(or in most cases how we think He cant work). Yes he is supernatural but if he chooses to answer prayer in mundane ways rather than popping up in a cloud of smoke then what is wrong with that. Sometimes you have to ask yourself the question of exactly what you are expecting God to do and then ask yourself if you are being reasonable in expecting Him to act as you deem right. That is a lesson I have learnt over the past while because I had it all mapped out in my head just how I though God should act in situations, but then there is a verse which states that God's thoughts are different from mine.

Yes, but he states very clearly that he would have all men be saved. Certainly a prayer for evidence private to me which I wouldn't share with anyone is not an unreasonable request.

I was interested to hear how you feel awed at science (mars etc). I do aswell, especially looking up into a starry sky or hearing a song that means something to me. I believe that this is evidence that we are made for worship.

How might you distinguish between a world in which these feelings were inspired by being 'made' for worship and one in which they had a naturalistic explanation (such as religion providing a survival advantage to groups of humans in the past, for example).

I read on a post in one of the forums about how someone was saying that it goes against man's dignity to kneel/bow down and so Christianity is wrong blah blah, yet when you are totally in awe of something you get that fluttery weak kneed feeling and I think that's how it will be when we see God- it will be so awesome and wonderful that falling to our knees will be the most natural thing to do.

In any case, the argument (strawman?) you posted is obviously ridiculous.

[Xavier]

RightIdea:

So does "baptism," but you don't see them getting baptized, do you?

My point exactly...

[AtheistArchon]

- What if the Koran is right and the bible is wrong?

[Xavier]

AtheistArchon:

- What if the Koran is right and the bible is wrong?

Since the Koran actually believes parts of the Bible to be True, what now?

[AtheistArchon]

Since the Koran actually believes parts of the Bible to be True, what now?

- Erm. Okay, make up your mind... are the Koran and the bible different, or not? You can't have it both ways.

[Xavier]

AtheistArchon:

- Erm. Okay, make up your mind... are the Koran and the bible different, or not? You can't have it both ways.

Actually, You can...

The Koran says that Christ was born of a virgin and was blameless....

The Bible says that Christ was born of a virgin and was blameless....

The Koran also relates stories of other Biblical narratives. (Granted: Edited to comply with the Koran's other teachings.)

In areas of Theology, Koran isn't doing so well, Falling prey to constant contridiction, but I've neither the time nor knowledge to exhaustively discuss these.

Yours,
Xavier

:xav:

[LGM]

Today @ 04:28 PM post located here
RightIdea:
There is a major difference between the truth claims of Islam and Christianity.

Yes we know. Is it that you believe one and not the other. And what a coincidence, what with you being raised in a predominantly Christian part of the world, and your ancestors all likely being Christian...

Three people stand before you. Three potential sources of information -- truth claimers.

The first guy says, "I can tell you the truth because I heard it from someone, or I read it." Okay, maybe he can tell you the truth, who knows. Might we worth checking out.

So far, thats the only type of guy/girl thats standing before us in this thread...

So please PM me when any ot the real Truth guys show up...in the meantime, I'm still happy for you, that you think you know the "Truth"...it must be very satisfying...

LGM
...any other "Truth" left to find out about the universe? Or do you pretty much have the whole thing figured out?...

[bar Jonah]

AtheistArchon:
- What if the Koran is right and the bible is wrong?

Then we should believe it. If it holds up to scrutiny.

But good luck.... because unlike the Bible, the Koran is impossible to know in context. Do you know how it's organized? The chapters are ordered by SIZE. Not by subject or chronology. So when it says to treat infidels okay as long as they pay you tribute..... and elsewhere it says to pursue the infidels and slay them, and that the End will not come until the Muslims kill ALL the Jews... it's impossible to know which applies when.

No one today knows what order the Koran really belongs in. You see, there were many versions of the Koran, early on, but unfortunately one of the early Imams decided to gather all the copies together and burn all the ones he didn't like, leaving us with what we have today.

Thank goodness there's so much textual criticism supporting the Koran.

However, AA, I see that you are earnest. So, may I challenge you a little, on a serious note? My ministry's website -- GODISNOWHERE.org -- has one or two articles on Islam specifically, written by our founder, as this is one of the topics he studies most. Check out some of what he's written on Islam before moving forward with your quest.

LakeGeorgeMan:
Yes we know. Is it that you believe one and not the other. And what a coincidence, what with you being raised in a predominantly Christian part of the world, and your ancestors all likely being Christian...

Uhm, yeah. That's why I spent most of my adult life as a WITCH.

[bar Jonah]

Ack! pay no attention to my extra post. LOL

[Xavier]

RightIdea:

Ack! pay no attention to my extra post. LOL

Okay... I'll ignore it...

[Robyn Banks]

Amazing Rando:
I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here, Robyn.

I was pointing out the fundamental problem with verification of truth under the Correspondence Theory of Truth.

Amazing Rando:
there were far more witnesses to the Resurrection than to the Transfiguration. Or at least- witnesses that Jesus was no longer dead, since nobody actually saw the resurrection.

Well - there were historically a few close disciples who claimed a vision of the resurrected Jesus, I conclude. Whether Jesus was in fact resurrected is the question. Can you rely on literature which is self-professedly biased towards telling a theological ('good news') story, and thus biased towards selling a message, when you are trying to determine historical fact? The Gospels are first and foremost telling gospel, not fact-reporters.

There are also some unsubstantiated claims about many hundreds of people seeing him in these same Gospels, which have as much historical value as the Transfiguration story.

Amazing Rando:
Let me qualify this- I initially believed in the Resurrection because I felt it was more likely that it happened than that it didn't.

You considered that the resurrection of Jesus was more than 50% probable?

How so?

Time to dig out the "specifics of why you believe the Resurrection to be historically probable". For me, it has as much 'historical value' as the Transfiguration. That is not to say that the Transfiguration and Resurrection did or did not occur. But I seriously doubt the ability of historical research to conclude either 'event' as being as "historically probable" as you consider the resurrection is.

But I'd be more than a bit interested in how you come to such a conclusion.

Amazing Rando:
Experiences like I related in the previous post - the answered prayers, transformed life, and the love, have subsequently solidified it to me.

And I am sure that if you had converted to Buddhism that such things (translated into Buddhist talk) would have confirmed the Truth of Buddhism for you. But I appreciate that most people have subjective reasons for a particular belief, rather than objective reasons. I am more interested in your claim that the resurrection of Jesus was more than 50% probable, above.

It may be sensible starting a new thread if you set them out.

Robyn Banks