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Assessment of Mr. Trump

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  • Assessment of Mr. Trump

    One of the things that brought me back to TWeb is the current political climate. It is my impression that our country is too polarized, and we are all living in our own little partisan bubble - without much listening to the other side.

    I've not been shy about my feelings concerning Mr. Trump, and I won't waste everyone's time relisting his shortcomings (IMO) here. What I would really like to know, especially from those whgo are his supporters, what you believe to be both his strengths and his weaknesses. I'm curious to know what it is the right, especially the Christian right, finds attractive in this man - and whether or not you see him as having any shortcomings.

    And no - this is not "bait." I have no intension of trying to convince anyone that my view of the man is "right." I'm just trying to understand the perspective from the other side.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

  • #2
    I'm glad Hillary is not POTUS and didn't get to affect SCOTUS.

    I wish somebody would change Trump's Twitter password, and not tell him what it is.

    I love that my 401K is soaring.

    It's kind fun to watch the hand-wringing of the left, but sad to see such intense hatred.

    It's goofy to see people talk with such childish disdain that they can't even call Trump President, which he is, and resort to silly names like "fat Donny".

    I'm pretty fed up with politicians in general, though we have some local politicians that I trust and enjoy knowing.

    PS, I'm an independent, not a Republican, and not really a Trump supporter, but you know that (I think).
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I'm glad Hillary is not POTUS and didn't get to affect SCOTUS.
      Curious what is important to you about SCOTUS? I want Dems not Reps to make SCOTUS appointments because as far as SCOTUS is concerned I 90% care about their corruption cases (i.e. I want anti-corruption laws to not be ruled unconstitutional by the Republican judges - e.g. Citizens United etc), I 8% care about the workers rights, and I 2% care about them just giving sensible rulings on general issues.

      Why is a Republican appointed majority on SCOTUS important to you? (Especially given there's been a conservative SCOTUS majority for the past 40 years or so?)
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        One of the things that brought me back to TWeb is the current political climate. It is my impression that our country is too polarized, and we are all living in our own little partisan bubble - without much listening to the other side.

        I've not been shy about my feelings concerning Mr. Trump, and I won't waste everyone's time relisting his shortcomings (IMO) here. What I would really like to know, especially from those whgo are his supporters, what you believe to be both his strengths and his weaknesses. I'm curious to know what it is the right, especially the Christian right, finds attractive in this man - and whether or not you see him as having any shortcomings.

        And no - this is not "bait." I have no intension of trying to convince anyone that my view of the man is "right." I'm just trying to understand the perspective from the other side.
        I have voted for president every election from 1988 through 2012. For 2016, I finally concluded that all 4 candidates were unqualified for the office and I didn't vote on the presidential line.

        I think the Christian right finds him "attractive" because they know what they would have gotten from Hillary and he was the only viable alternative. The Christian right vote was probably more an "anybody but Hillary" vote than an endorsement of Trump. Frankly, the Christian right would probably have preferred Ted Cruz.
        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Curious what is important to you about SCOTUS? I want Dems not Reps to make SCOTUS appointments because as far as SCOTUS is concerned I 90% care about their corruption cases (i.e. I want anti-corruption laws to not be ruled unconstitutional by the Republican judges - e.g. Citizens United etc), I 8% care about the workers rights, and I 2% care about them just giving sensible rulings on general issues.

          Why is a Republican appointed majority on SCOTUS important to you? (Especially given there's been a conservative SCOTUS majority for the past 40 years or so?)
          What's important to me is that is that the Supreme Court judges uphold the Constitution of the United States, regardless of if their decisions favor workers' rights, if those rights aren't constitutional. Many of their decisions lately have been in blatant violation of the Constitution.

          But in my opinion that is what is meant by "conservative". So yes, I absolutely support conservative judges. We didn't get them when Obama was president and we wouldn't have gotten any if Hillary Rodham had become president. I'll keep my personal opinions about the person of Donald Trump to myself, but at least he is making some good decisions concerning the appointment of judges.

          And no, I didn't vote from Trump.
          When I Survey....

          Comment


          • #6
            My impression is that we can think the Divider in Chief (our most recent ex-POTUS) for the current state of polarization, and the left's trenchant refusal to accept the current POTUS as POTUS isn't any less culpable. If you're gonna toe the middle of the road, at least spread a little of the blame to both sides.

            As for Trump, the Poker of Cows is not wrong.
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I'm glad Hillary is not POTUS and didn't get to affect SCOTUS.

              I wish somebody would change Trump's Twitter password, and not tell him what it is.
              I cannot join you on the first - but I am with you on the second.

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I love that my 401K is soaring.
              Me too - but mine has been soaring since January 2016. Yours has not?

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              It's kind fun to watch the hand-wringing of the left, but sad to see such intense hatred.
              Do you see the hatred of Trump from the left as any different from the hatred of the right for Clinton and Obama?

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              It's goofy to see people talk with such childish disdain that they can't even call Trump President, which he is, and resort to silly names like "fat Donny".
              I am not a fan of the kind of name calling you cite, but I am one of those who will not dignify him with the title "president." Yes - he's duly elected - and he holds the office. But, IMO, he shows such disdain for it and so brings shame to it - I will not debase the office by attributing it to him. If that makes me "childish," so be it. It is out of respect for the office - and Trump is the ONLY president I have ever felt that way about. It has nothing to do with right/left or Republican/Democrat. It has everything with the mans lack of respect for his own office.

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              I'm pretty fed up with politicians in general, though we have some local politicians that I trust and enjoy knowing.
              That is common - in my experience. We tend to "hate those politicians," but like the ones from our own world. It's why incumbents keep winning.

              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              PS, I'm an independent, not a Republican, and not really a Trump supporter, but you know that (I think).
              I do.
              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                I have voted for president every election from 1988 through 2012. For 2016, I finally concluded that all 4 candidates were unqualified for the office and I didn't vote on the presidential line.

                I think the Christian right finds him "attractive" because they know what they would have gotten from Hillary and he was the only viable alternative. The Christian right vote was probably more an "anybody but Hillary" vote than an endorsement of Trump. Frankly, the Christian right would probably have preferred Ted Cruz.
                So how does that explain the rock-hard endorsement since then - and the justification for almost everything he's said/done since his election? It would seem to me, if the candidate was a "less of two evils," after the election he would be held to account...?
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  My impression is that we can think the Divider in Chief (our most recent ex-POTUS) for the current state of polarization, and the left's trenchant refusal to accept the current POTUS as POTUS isn't any less culpable. If you're gonna toe the middle of the road, at least spread a little of the blame to both sides.

                  As for Trump, the Poker of Cows is not wrong.
                  How do you see Obama as "Divider in chief? And do you think Trump is any less so?
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    How do you see Obama as "Divider in chief?
                    Where to start....
                    Characterizing conservatives as "bitterly clinging to guns and religion", blaming everything on W, jumping in to defend a Harvard prof in the wrong without getting the facts first, refusing to work with Republicans because he won the election and they didn't, aiding and abetting anti-cop rhetoric, etc.
                    And do you think Trump is any less so?
                    Given he was registered Democrat not so long ago, I think he'd be more than willing to work with them to get things done. As a businessman, he's a wheeler and dealer. Most of his attacks on the opposition are retaliatory. I do wish that his Twitter account would permanently freeze, and that he'd be more careful with the facts when he speaks.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      I am not a fan of the kind of name calling you cite, but I am one of those who will not dignify him with the title "president." Yes - he's duly elected - and he holds the office. But, IMO, he shows such disdain for it and so brings shame to it - I will not debase the office by attributing it to him. If that makes me "childish," so be it. It is out of respect for the office - and Trump is the ONLY president I have ever felt that way about. It has nothing to do with right/left or Republican/Democrat. It has everything with the mans lack of respect for his own office.
                      Dude is your president whether you want to call him that or not. I think he is a short-sighted, egocentric, megalomaniac, but he is still my president whether I like it or not (and the answer is not). And yes, it does seem a bit childish to repeat the goofy refrain "not my president". Yes he is. He was legally elected into the office no matter how much we wish that wasn't the case. Suck it up and move on. Him being president shouldn't effect who we are and how we interact with those around us. Just keep doing your best to be the best you can be, and don't worry about those things that are out of your control. There is plenty we can do in our own communities that will help those in need regardless of who is president.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                        Dude is your president whether you want to call him that or not. I think he is a short-sighted, egocentric, megalomaniac, but he is still my president whether I like it or not (and the answer is not). And yes, it does seem a bit childish to repeat the goofy refrain "not my president". Yes he is. He was legally elected into the office no matter how much we wish that wasn't the case. Suck it up and move on. Him being president shouldn't effect who we are and how we interact with those around us. Just keep doing your best to be the best you can be, and don't worry about those things that are out of your control. There is plenty we can do in our own communities that will help those in need regardless of who is president.
                        Gotta agree with this. 'Not my President' - if you were someone who actually voted - is nothing more than the kind of thing spoilt brats do when they lose. They were quite happy to play when they thought they would win, but when (to their surprise) they lose, suddenly they don't accept the rules of the contest anymore. It shows that the person is only interested in winning, in gaining power, and not in sharing in a political system that allows all sides the chance of getting what they want.

                        As for how I feel about Trump -

                        (1) He's not Hilary, a big point in his favour. Yuge, even.

                        (2) Most of the mainstream media coverage of Trump and his doings is relentlessly negative, and even on occasions outright untrue. Which tends to make most people also view Trump negatively. If it was possible to make a fair assessment of him as a President, one would have to seek balanced sources - and I doubt there are many of those at all. I think he faces opposition from both 'right' and left', in both Congress/Senate and the civil service bureacracy. That makes his job harder than many previous presidents have faced.

                        (3) I think the best frame to view him through is based on some of Scott Adam's (of Dilbert fame) ideas. Trump is a salesman, a negotiator and a persuader. He does things like make a very high 'initial offer' to establish a favourable bargaining position. He can then retreat from that offer, and still get a better deal than if he had come in with his actual desired goal as the offer. I think he actually plays on the goofy hair and tan, dumb boor image to lull people into underestimating him. If he really was as dumb as many think, how did he get the Republican nomination and then the Presidency against all the odds and pundit's predictions?

                        Maybe he really is a dope, or maybe we're underestimating him.
                        ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke
                          It's goofy to see people talk with such childish disdain that they can't even call Trump President, which he is, and resort to silly names like "fat Donny".
                          Same when many people, including Trump, thought Obama wasn't a legitimate president because of his birth certificates.

                          Trump is the president of the United States, I don't see any reason not to admit that.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                            Trump is the president of the United States, I don't see any reason not to admit that.
                            He's not my president.
                            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              He's not my president.
                              Well he's certainly not *my* president either. I'm danish.

                              Comment

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