Media Bias

[rogue06]

You think?

Not when I don't have to

[carpedm9587]

Not when I don't have to

Oh THAT is abundantly clear...


Edited to add: sorry - I just COULDN'T resist...

[rogue06]

Oh THAT is abundantly clear...


Edited to add: sorry - I just COULDN'T resist...

No worries. I set it up for just that sorta response

[carpedm9587]

No worries. I set it up for just that sorta response

And here I thought I was being crafty...

[rogue06]

And here I thought I was being crafty...

And that was your first mistake

[rogue06]

Placing oneself on the political spectrum near center (slightly left, actually) and "being neutral" are not the same thing, OBP. Neutral means someone is not taking a stance on issues X, Y, or Z. I don't think any of my posts here were "neutral," as I noted. However, I make an effort to see the arguments of both sides and try to understand them - and I make an effort not to paint those who disagree with me as my enemies. I think we can debate, even vigorously, without having to attack, disparage, or call one another names. We can disagree without painting the opposition as "unamerican" or "evil." I make the assumption that someone making a case here is being honest and forthright. If I think their case is not consistent and has holes, I do not jump to the assumption they are a hypocrite. I assume people sometimes just don't see all of the elements and connect all of the dots - as I am sure is true of me more than occasionally.

As for my position on the spectrum, I'm comfortable with my self-assessment, and it has been confirmed by several of those "test." The discussions here, recently, have tended to be about social issues - and I am most definitely stronger left than right (by a lot) on social issues. I drift to the right on fiscal issues, but there have not been many of those thus far. And I dislike Trump in the extreme, as I have no been shy about - further adding to the perception of my "leftness." But my objections to Trump are not primarily about policies. As I noted - a difference in policies is to be expected (Obama had many I did not agree with). I dislike Mr. Trump because of his personal flaws and the disrespect he brings to the office he holds.

Being a centrist is a distinct political view and IMHBAO should not be conflated with being neutral.

[carpedm9587]

And that was your first mistake

See - I TOLD I was right in all those other posts....

[One Bad Pig]

Placing oneself on the political spectrum near center (slightly left, actually) and "being neutral" are not the same thing, OBP. Neutral means someone is not taking a stance on issues X, Y, or Z. I don't think any of my posts here were "neutral," as I noted. However, I make an effort to see the arguments of both sides and try to understand them - and I make an effort not to paint those who disagree with me as my enemies. I think we can debate, even vigorously, without having to attack, disparage, or call one another names. We can disagree without painting the opposition as "unamerican" or "evil." I make the assumption that someone making a case here is being honest and forthright. If I think their case is not consistent and has holes, I do not jump to the assumption they are a hypocrite. I assume people sometimes just don't see all of the elements and connect all of the dots - as I am sure is true of me more than occasionally.

As for my position on the spectrum, I'm comfortable with my self-assessment, and it has been confirmed by several of those "test." The discussions here, recently, have tended to be about social issues - and I am most definitely stronger left than right (by a lot) on social issues. I drift to the right on fiscal issues, but there have not been many of those thus far. And I dislike Trump in the extreme, as I have no been shy about - further adding to the perception of my "leftness." But my objections to Trump are not primarily about policies. As I noted - a difference in policies is to be expected (Obama had many I did not agree with). I dislike Mr. Trump because of his personal flaws and the disrespect he brings to the office he holds.

I only used the term "neutral" because that's what you asked about. If you'll note, I qualified it as "neither right nor left." As rogue said, a better word for that would be "centrist."

[rogue06]

See - I TOLD I was right in all those other posts....

0000000000can't disagree.jpg
Touché -- this time. But I'll
get you and your little dog too!

[carpedm9587]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]25517[/ATTACH]
Touché -- this time. But I'll
get you and your little dog too!

[EvoUK]

What does a centrist actually look like? I’ve seen many people classify themselves as centrist, but when you ask them about certain issues- especially social issues- they clearly lean one of both ways.

Is someone who is socially left/right and economically right/left, thereby cancelling each other out?

What’s a centrist view on abortion for example?

[carpedm9587]

I only used the term "neutral" because that's what you asked about. If you'll note, I qualified it as "neither right nor left." As rogue said, a better word for that would be "centrist."

Yes - I am more centrist than extreme - and (as noted) slightly left of that centerline as an average. I am most definitely not neutral. I have fairly passionately held beliefs, though I hope not SO passionately held that I won't hold them up to scrutiny now and again.

[guacamole]

What does a centrist actually look like? I’ve seen many people classify themselves as centrist, but when you ask them about certain issues- especially social issues- they clearly lean one of both ways.

Is someone who is socially left/right and economically right/left, thereby cancelling each other out?

What’s a centrist view on abortion for example?

That's the built in fiction to centrism. I'm far right on abortion--none. But I'm far left on labor and workers' rights. They kind of cancel each other out and put me towards the middle, except that it's a--not a statistical fallacy, that's not right--a median fallacy? I can't remember. Something like that. In reality, I'm not a centrist on those positions.

[rogue06]

You know, I could have just told the list wasn't chronological but alphabetical, categorical or in order of importance.

[carpedm9587]

What does a centrist actually look like? I’ve seen many people classify themselves as centrist, but when you ask them about certain issues- especially social issues- they clearly lean one of both ways.

Is someone who is socially left/right and economically right/left, thereby cancelling each other out?

What’s a centrist view on abortion for example?

We're going to start that again?

Well, I can tell you what MY centrist position looks like, but if you are right-leaning you'll call me a leftist, and if you are left-leaning you will call me a rightist.

I believe that the abortion issue is the ultimate catch-22 issue. On one side, you have a living being in the form of an unborn child, and to end its life is wrong. On the other you have the state telling a mature, independent woman what she can or cannot do with her own body. The right likes to characterize the former as "murder," and the left characterizes the latter as inappropriate government intrusion on a woman's own person - her own body. I have used the term "temporary slavery" to characterize it, which the right (predictably) absolutely rejects. I see the right as focused on the child to the exclusion of the woman, and the left as focused on the woman to the exclusion of the child - but neither side wants to acknowledge that reality. The left accomplishes this by denying that the fetus is actually a person - a child. The right does this by placing the innocence of the child above the sovereignty of a woman over her own body.

I believe there is no tractable legal approach to this. First of all, it is incredibly unlikely that existing laws will be over-turned in the face of existing precedence. If these laws WERE over-turned, the left would arise en-mass to displace the politicians in question and, within a few years, the laws would likely re-assert. Meanwhile, the same-old-same-old approach is resulting in only a VERY slow reduction in annual abortion rates. So I believe the only viable approach to reducing abortions is to act BEFORE that decision has to be made. If the two sides worked together to do joint messaging on the impact of unwanted pregnancies, provide ALL alternatives for avoiding them (abstinence, birth control options, etc.), and really engaged on a campaign to change this as a joint message of the value of both the woman AND the child, much could be accomplished.

Neither side wants to be "immoral" and both sides have a consistent position IF you accept their presuppositions. So the question is, how do we work together despite those presuppositions? We can always keep challenging the presuppositions - but I do not think we should be letting them get in the way of finding practical solutions that can (finally) make a difference in the abortion rate.

To me - THAT's what a centrist position looks like. But it makes me look like a flaming liberal to the folks on the right, and like a flaming conservative to the folks on the left. More than anything else, that dynamics is what leads me to think I'm somewhere near the middle.