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Does an Omniscient Creator Lead to Fatalism?

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  • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    What ever is omnipresent possess all things, all information, all knowledge as such.
    You could argue that all information exists in the world, knowledge is a different story, requires a mind.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Ah, if there is no God (the uncaused existence not being the God), then what ever omniscience there might be, it is limited to omnipresence of all existence, and not any kind of conscious entity as we think a god would be.
      Omniscience is defined as “the state of knowing everything”, but it requires a conscious mind to “know” anything, let alone “everything” and there is no substantive evidence that such a mind exists.
      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by JimL View Post
        Defining our own terms are we?
        Explain to me where existence is not?
        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
          According to whom? Presence has nothing to do with either possession or knowledge, and your saying otherwise can't change that.
          No. Presence, possession and knowledge are indeed different things. What does everything have in common? Existence. Where is not existence?
          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
            Omniscience is defined as “the state of knowing everything”, but it requires a conscious mind to “know” anything, let alone “everything” and there is no substantive evidence that such a mind exists.
            You reject that evidence. It has been said, "In Him we live and move and have our being." He has been defined as being omnipresent. His Hebrew Name has the concise meaning of "Is." Being that He is omnipresent, He cannot not know everything. And Christians do know Him (John 14:6, John 17:3, 1 John 5:12, 13, 20).
            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

            Comment


            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
              You reject that evidence. It has been said, "In Him we live and move and have our being." He has been defined as being omnipresent. His Hebrew Name has the concise meaning of "Is." Being that He is omnipresent, He cannot not know everything. And Christians do know Him (John 14:6, John 17:3, 1 John 5:12, 13, 20).
              Yet again you cite scriptural texts as if they are authoritative. They are not.
              “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                Explain to me where existence is not?
                Well, if you're a pantheist, then all existing things are just one thing and therefore you could say that the one existing thing is omnipresent. I don't think that's what you're trying to say though, is it?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                  You reject that evidence.
                  The only thing that I'm rejecting is your apparent assumption that your say-so is the only evidence for anything that I should care about.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                    Yet again you cite scriptural texts as if they are authoritative. They are not.
                    Two things regarding the authority of said Biblical writings. If not authoritative: why not? Being authoritative, you reject their authority.
                    . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                    . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                    Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                      The only thing that I'm rejecting is your apparent assumption that your say-so is the only evidence for anything that I should care about.
                      My say so does not make anything authoritative to be authoritative. God has a real identity. And there are two reasons former professing Christians are wrong. One, they never Knew God. Had one actually knew God, one could no more deny it than having understood 1 + 1 = 2. Secondly, they never had a correct understanding of the gospel of grace.
                      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                        Two things regarding the authority of said Biblical writings. If not authoritative: why not?
                        If "authoritative", why? Because you say so? Why is that a good reason?

                        Being authoritative, you reject their authority.
                        I reject that they are authoritative.
                        “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                          If "authoritative", why?
                          As to what a Christian believes.
                          Because you say so?
                          No. It would not be authoritative because of my saying so.
                          Why is that a good reason?
                          For those who are Christians it is. Not for you.


                          I reject that they are authoritative.
                          Of course you reject it.
                          . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                          . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                          Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                            Well, if you're a pantheist, then all existing things are just one thing and therefore you could say that the one existing thing is omnipresent. I don't think that's what you're trying to say though, is it?
                            Will, for one thing, I am not a pantheist. And you did not explain where existence is not. Things which exist are neither the same thing nor are they being the existence in being in the existence.
                            . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                            . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                            Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              My say so does not make anything authoritative to be authoritative.
                              But it's all you have. I have never seen you present any other reason to believe anything you have said in this forum.

                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Had one actually knew God, one could no more deny it than having understood 1 + 1 = 2.
                              You say so.

                              Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                              Secondly, they never had a correct understanding of the gospel of grace.
                              You say so.
                              Last edited by Doug Shaver; 04-21-2018, 06:30 PM.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                                As to what a Christian believes. No. It would not be authoritative because of my saying so. For those who are Christians it is. Not for you.
                                I see. So you believe scripture to be authoritative because you're a Christian. And you're a Christian because you believe scripture to be authoritative. Your reasoning is a tad circular.

                                Of course you reject it.
                                There's nothing to reject.
                                “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                                Comment

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