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Thread: The Turing Test, Consciousness and Imago Dei

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    Undergraduate Smash Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No, I do not think consciousness alone makes a human being. We are primarily spiritual beings in a physical "tent." So the gulf between what humans are and what animals or AIs are will never be bridged.
    As a Christian, I agree, but suppose you are debating a non-believer; would you solely base your responses on biblical (and sound) responses, or would you add a secular response, like the Chinese Room Argument?

    Just to be clear, I don’t think any AI developed so far has passed the Turing Test or even if the Turing Test is a legitimate method in identifying humanity in AI’s save Sophia (but even her [or it?] she hasn’t been reported to pass the Turing test).

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Boy View Post
    As a Christian, I agree, but suppose you are debating a non-believer; would you solely base your responses on biblical (and sound) responses, or would you add a secular response, like the Chinese Room Argument?
    It has been a while since I looked at the Chinese room argument, but no, as a Christian I would argue from my worldview. Heck if you argued from a secular worldview there would be very little to distinguish us from apes. Yes we are more intelligent but that is a difference of degrees but not of kind.

    Just to be clear, I don’t think any AI developed so far has passed the Turing Test or even if the Turing Test is a legitimate method in identifying humanity in AI’s save Sophia (but even her [or it?] she hasn’t been reported to pass the Turing test).
    And if it passes the Turing test, then what? Human rights for AIs?
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

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    Undergraduate Smash Boy's Avatar
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    Sorry I was in class, couldn’t reply on time.


    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    It has been a while since I looked at the Chinese room argument, but no, as a Christian I would argue from my worldview. Heck if you argued from a secular worldview there would be very little to distinguish us from apes. Yes we are more intelligent but that is a difference of degrees but not of kind.
    I don’t disagree, some aspects of the Chinese Room argument do assume a physicalist approach, which I disagree, but the point is that the Chinese Room argument shows that the Turing Test has not achieved, to this day, what Alan Turing was having in mind back in the ‘50’s.



    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    And if it passes the Turing test, then what? Human rights for AIs?
    Well now that you mentioned it, there was a news headline where the same AI (Sophia), was granted citizenship in Syria I think, and some AI enthusiasts are considering giving AI human rights; which of course, I think it’s absurd.

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    tWebber seer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Boy View Post
    Well now that you mentioned it, there was a news headline where the same AI (Sophia), was granted citizenship in Syria I think, and some AI enthusiasts are considering giving AI human rights; which of course, I think it’s absurd.
    Just as some would want it to be murder to kill and eat animals. I see it all as a dark and consistent effort to undermine the uniqueness of human beings. We are no better or different than animals, and now in this case machines.
    “The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic, and a killer. It has never yet melted.” D.H. Lawrence

  5. Amen Cow Poke, Cerebrum123, Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    To me the turing test doesn't prove anything other than how gullible the person who is testing is. What fools one person might not fool someone else. Also even if the machine could pass the test, all it proves is that it can fake being intelligent. It doesn't prove that it has consciousness or can actually think for itself. It just means it is good at the Turing test.

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    tWebber TheWall's Avatar
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    Even if we did make life possessing hnau as C.S Lewis called it, or imago dei which personally i think is impossible it would prove that intelligence and deliberate planning are necessary for life.

  8. Amen Smash Boy amen'd this post.
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    Undergraduate Smash Boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    To me the turing test doesn't prove anything other than how gullible the person who is testing is. What fools one person might not fool someone else. Also even if the machine could pass the test, all it proves is that it can fake being intelligent. It doesn't prove that it has consciousness or can actually think for itself. It just means it is good at the Turing test.
    These are exactly the thoughts of people like Mark Halpern when he addressed the Test even granting the scenario where the computer does pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    Just as some would want it to be murder to kill and eat animals. I see it all as a dark and consistent effort to undermine the uniqueness of human beings. We are no better or different than animals, and now in this case machines.
    I agree. But so far, as elusive the Test is, no machine so far has achieved what Alan Turing had in mind.

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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Boy View Post
    I agree. But so far, as elusive the Test is, no machine so far has achieved what Alan Turing had in mind.
    um,,,

    http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-27762088

    but like you said, it probably wasn't what Turing had in mind. Not some rigged chatbox event, but having an actual extended conversation with the bot and a person with no conditions or limits. And not having a bot that pretends to be an ignorant foreign teenager to cover up the bots errors.
    Last edited by Sparko; 12-18-2017 at 04:40 PM.

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    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smash Boy View Post
    As a Christian, I agree, but suppose you are debating a non-believer; would you solely base your responses on biblical (and sound) responses, or would you add a secular response, like the Chinese Room Argument?

    Just to be clear, I don’t think any AI developed so far has passed the Turing Test or even if the Turing Test is a legitimate method in identifying humanity in AI’s save Sophia (but even her [or it?] she hasn’t been reported to pass the Turing test).
    The 'Turing Test' is history, and yes a computer passed the test.

    Source: http://mashable.com/2014/06/12/eugene-goostman-turing-test/#yffkJXgezPq0


    Eugene Goostman is a smart-ass teenager, living in Ukraine and currently conducting conversations with inquisitive souls around the world. There's only one problem: Eugene is not a boy, he's a program. And he — or it — made headlines earlier this week when a new version of the chat bot finally passed a version of the Turing Test.

    Developed by PrincetonAI (a small team of programmers and technologists not affiliated with Princeton University) and backed by a computer and some gee-whiz algorithms, "Eugene Goostman" was able to fool the Turing Test 2014 judges 33% of the time — good enough to surpass the threshold set by computer scientist Alan Turing in 1950. Turing believed that by 2000, computers would be able to, through five-minute text-based conversations, fool humans into believing that they were flesh and blood, at least 30% of the time. Depending on whom you talk to, Goostman's achievement is either a huge turning point for technology, or just another blip.

    © Copyright Original Source



    I do not believe test nor the fact that the test was busted resulted in any conclusive evidence of machine intelligence equivalent to human intelligence, but I do not consider it a difficult task to achieve this in the near future.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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