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Thread: The Turing Test, Consciousness and Imago Dei

  1. #31
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No, I do not think consciousness alone makes a human being. We are primarily spiritual beings in a physical "tent." So the gulf between what humans are and what animals or AIs are will never be bridged.
    There's no evidence to support this hypothesis. We are the behaviours and knowledge generated by our brain, and we cannot be separated from that. "Consciousness" is what the brain is doing...we ARE what the brain is doing.
    ďHe felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.Ē - Douglas Adams.

  2. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  3. #32
    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    I agree that the Turing Test is not sufficient. Its limited by the fact that its designed merely to see if a computer can fake that its a person.

    I can imagine a computer faking being say a dumb teenager as someone here has suggested.

    Something deeper is required that tests cooporation. Whether it, as an agent, can work with another human within any task that any other human can do. Demonstrating originality, insight, understanding, empathy, all that stuff.

    I'm not sure what it would mean for it to "fake" that stuff. If it does the work of a rational agent, then it is a rational agent. "faking it" would be "having it"

    Or at least there would be no difference between "faking it" and "having it" in that case, and I'm not sure what that would mean either.

    I dismiss Cerebrums suggestion that they would be philosophical zombies. He offers no particular good reason for assuming that they'd be that except a prior commitment against their existence. The bible is quite silent on the possibility of humans to create homunculi. Its silence in no way constitutes evidence against the possibility.

    Like intelligent life on other planets, its something we can only empirically discover. I don't think we can reason it out from basic assumptions.

    I'm open to the possibility of making a conscious machine that senses its surroundings, and that it would in some sense feel what it senses. The soul being the form of the body, there is nothing preventing that from occurring. We sense, and see, and hear, and smell, have feelings because we have a brain. Without that brain we're radically deprived of all those things. Even in Heaven (though we'll have something else by God's grace I believe).

    I'm much more dubious about whether we can create a machine that abstract its experience from particulars. Discover items in the world, and figure things out for itself rather simple seeking out pre-seeded patterns. If we created that then that would really shake my understanding of the human mind.

    In other words a mind that can look at chairs, and without any prior knowledge of chairs, understand the purpose of them.

    If we ever build that, I'd either have to seriously reconsider whether the soul is immaterial and probably adopt some kind of physicalism. Or I'd have to believe that a computer somehow gained a ghost of its own. Thomistic philosophy has long shown that this kind of reasoning can't possibly be had by something that doesn't possess and imminent and immaterial intelligence (the only part of our soul that is immortal).

    That's kinda why no doggo ever goes to Heaven. When it dies its soul disappears. That's also mostly true of humans except for a tiny nugget representing our self.
    Last edited by Leonhard; 12-27-2017 at 01:10 PM.

  4. #33
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by seer View Post
    No, I do not think consciousness alone makes a human being. We are primarily spiritual beings in a physical "tent." So the gulf between what humans are and what animals or AIs are will never be bridged.
    What do you base this statement on, seer? Any facts to provide? I am certainly not trying to indicate they don't exist, I am just wondering why you don't provide any?

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