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Thread: Question for the Evos ...

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    tWebber
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    Question for the Evos ...

    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.

    Truth be told, all I am expecting to receive are howlers - the specialty of the Evo-Faithful.

    I'll check in later to see ...

    Jorge

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    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?
    Firstly by noting that the above information comes from an unreliable source, and so may not be true.

    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.
    Secondly by noting that said unreliable source wouldn't accept any evolutionary explanation anyway, even if he understood it, so trying to pass the "smell test" would be a waste of time.
    Starlight: "In America a lot of tap-water is contaminated with lead or chemicals from fracking, because the right-wing crazies are anti-regulation."
    Lilpixieoferror: "Another day another Starlight fable. What actually causes high lead levels in water is lead pipes or lead solder, not industrial waste from any source. Well, so much for this Starlight fable... I wonder what tomorrow’s made up story will be in his ‘I HATE AMERICAN CHRISTIANS!!!’ quest."

  3. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  4. #3
    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

    Looks like was getting his "science" from his usual YEC cesspools of information.

    Dandelion reproduction

    The dandelion has more than one method of reproducing themselves. This gives them multiple ways to spread and makes them more difficult to eradicate. The most common method of dandelion reproduction is through its wind-aided dispersal of seeds which germinate almost year-round. Pollination of the dandelion occurs when insects carry its pollen from one flower to another, but dandelions can also pollinated themselves. Thus, it only takes one single dandelion to reproduce itself and spread all over a lawn. Each dandelion that goes to seed produces between 135-300 seeds.

    Dandelion growth is often difficult to control and the plant can be difficult to completely eliminate, since the entire root system of the plant needs to be removed or they can quickly grow right back. The dandelion can regrow an entire new plant from its taproot by sending off new shoots underground. The dandelion does not even need a whole taproot to accomplish this, needing only a mere 2 millimeters of the root to germinate a whole new dandelion.

    Dandelion florets are ligulate and possess both male (pollen-producing) and female (seed-producing) parts. The fruits are mostly produced by asexual reproduction (apomixis), without fertilization. Dandelion plants typically have 24 or 40 pairs of chromosomes, but some have 16 or 32 chromosomes

    Dandelions are capable of reproducing themselves even when there is not enough sunlight to allow the flower buds to open. In this case, the make parts of the dandelion pollinate the female parts they are pressed up against. The fertile seeds then push their way out of the top of the bud
    Nothing to see folks, move along.

  5. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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  7. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Leonhard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
    Because he's the only creationist arguing down here.

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leonhard View Post
    Because he's the only creationist arguing down here.
    He's not arguing. He's rattling cages (his term).
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    tWebber TheLurch's Avatar
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    Even if the source is making it up on dandelions, there are lots of species that are optionally parthenogenic, including a number of reptiles.

    But it takes about 10 seconds of thinking to realize that there are obvious advantages to sexual reproduction (new assortment of genes, segregation of harmful mutations from advantageous ones, etc.), so it's no surprise a plant puts the energy into doing so. And another 10 seconds to realize that if there's nobody else around to reproduce sexually with, there are obvious advantages to being able to reproduce anyway.

    So the question to me is why Jorge didn't bother to put 20 seconds of thought into things before posting.

  11. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  12. #8
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
    Because he makes such a lovely piñata

    And ignoring him leaves the impression that there aren't easily available, obvious answers to the supposed inexplicable mysteries that he brings up

    I'm always still in trouble again

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    tWebber HMS_Beagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
    He provides a good reason to show the real science and rebut his Creationist stupidity.

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    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge View Post
    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.

    Truth be told, all I am expecting to receive are howlers - the specialty of the Evo-Faithful.

    I'll check in later to see ...

    Jorge
    Jorge,

    You do realize that by posting something completely wrong off a YEC website w/o even making a cursory check of the veracity of the claims you completely undermine your position.

    Right?

    Or is it that the truth doesn't matter to you?

    When you do this sort of thing, not only do you undermine YEC, you undermine your claim to Faith as well. Why would you do that?



    Jim
    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-20-2017 at 01:22 AM.
    Jorge's trueorigins paper: "...it is known that other volcanic features match what is usually associated with impact craters including ... shatter cones and crystal deformations"

    Planetary Science Institute: "Shatter cones … are found in only two places on Earth, 1) in nuclear test sites and 2) meteorite impact structures. They are formed as a result of the high pressure, high velocity shock wave ...

    maximum pressures from 45 to 200 times greater than found in volcanic events (2->20 Gpa)

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