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Question for the Evos ...

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  • Question for the Evos ...

    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.

    Truth be told, all I am expecting to receive are howlers - the specialty of the Evo-Faithful.

    I'll check in later to see ...

    Jorge

  • #2
    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?
    Firstly by noting that the above information comes from an unreliable source, and so may not be true.

    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.
    Secondly by noting that said unreliable source wouldn't accept any evolutionary explanation anyway, even if he understood it, so trying to pass the "smell test" would be a waste of time.
    Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

    MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
    MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

    seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Jorge View Post
      Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

      How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

      Looks like was getting his "science" from his usual YEC cesspools of information.

      Dandelion reproduction

      The dandelion has more than one method of reproducing themselves. This gives them multiple ways to spread and makes them more difficult to eradicate. The most common method of dandelion reproduction is through its wind-aided dispersal of seeds which germinate almost year-round. Pollination of the dandelion occurs when insects carry its pollen from one flower to another, but dandelions can also pollinated themselves. Thus, it only takes one single dandelion to reproduce itself and spread all over a lawn. Each dandelion that goes to seed produces between 135-300 seeds.

      Dandelion growth is often difficult to control and the plant can be difficult to completely eliminate, since the entire root system of the plant needs to be removed or they can quickly grow right back. The dandelion can regrow an entire new plant from its taproot by sending off new shoots underground. The dandelion does not even need a whole taproot to accomplish this, needing only a mere 2 millimeters of the root to germinate a whole new dandelion.

      Dandelion florets are ligulate and possess both male (pollen-producing) and female (seed-producing) parts. The fruits are mostly produced by asexual reproduction (apomixis), without fertilization. Dandelion plants typically have 24 or 40 pairs of chromosomes, but some have 16 or 32 chromosomes

      Dandelions are capable of reproducing themselves even when there is not enough sunlight to allow the flower buds to open. In this case, the make parts of the dandelion pollinate the female parts they are pressed up against. The fertile seeds then push their way out of the top of the bud
      Nothing to see folks, move along.

      Comment


      • #4
        Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
          Because he's the only creationist arguing down here.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
            Because he's the only creationist arguing down here.
            He's not arguing. He's rattling cages (his term).
            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
            sigpic
            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

            Comment


            • #7
              Even if the source is making it up on dandelions, there are lots of species that are optionally parthenogenic, including a number of reptiles.

              But it takes about 10 seconds of thinking to realize that there are obvious advantages to sexual reproduction (new assortment of genes, segregation of harmful mutations from advantageous ones, etc.), so it's no surprise a plant puts the energy into doing so. And another 10 seconds to realize that if there's nobody else around to reproduce sexually with, there are obvious advantages to being able to reproduce anyway.

              So the question to me is why Jorge didn't bother to put 20 seconds of thought into things before posting.
              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
                Because he makes such a lovely pińata

                And ignoring him leaves the impression that there aren't easily available, obvious answers to the supposed inexplicable mysteries that he brings up

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                  Why do y'all give Jorge what he wants?
                  He provides a good reason to show the real science and rebut his Creationist stupidity.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Jorge View Post
                    Dandelions are asexual and do not need pollination to produce viable seeds (the process is called apomixis). Yet, dandelions invest a lot of energy and resources making flowers that have pollen, attract bees, etc., as if they did require pollination. This investment does not appear to have any benefit to the species at all.

                    How would Evolutionary theory / the Evo-Faithful here at TWeb account for this?

                    I have no doubt that there is an Evo-explanation since Evo-theory "explains everything" but I haven't been able to find anything that passes the smell test.

                    Truth be told, all I am expecting to receive are howlers - the specialty of the Evo-Faithful.

                    I'll check in later to see ...

                    Jorge
                    Jorge,

                    You do realize that by posting something completely wrong off a YEC website w/o even making a cursory check of the veracity of the claims you completely undermine your position.

                    Right?

                    Or is it that the truth doesn't matter to you?

                    When you do this sort of thing, not only do you undermine YEC, you undermine your claim to Faith as well. Why would you do that?



                    Jim
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 12-19-2017, 08:22 PM.
                    My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1

                    If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not  bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26

                    This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                      Or is it that the truth doesn't matter to you?
                      Bingo!
                      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                      MM: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                      MM on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                      seer: I believe that so called 'compassion' [for starving Palestinian kids] maybe a cover for anti Semitism, ...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Jorge brings up an interesting point:

                        http://biologicalthinking.blogspot.c...dandelion.html

                        “Botanists scratch their heads a bit on this issue. Dandelions that don't produce pollen can make more seeds, since they are not wasting their energy. It may just be that because pollen production is genetically determined and dandelions don't evolve very quickly, the pollen production may just be an evolutionary leftover. Also, there are some sexually-reproducing dandelions in the world, so if dandelions maintain the ability to pollinate potential dandelion mates, they could just happen upon a better combination of genes than the ones they already have.”
                        “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                        “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                        “not all there” - you know who you are

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                          Jorge,

                          You do realize that by posting something completely wrong off a YEC website w/o even making a cursory check of the veracity of the claims you completely undermine your position.

                          Right?
                          Yup, that would be true.

                          Or is it that the truth doesn't matter to you?
                          Coming from you that's one of the howlers that I was expecting. I was not disappointed.

                          When you do this sort of thing, not only do you undermine YEC, you undermine your claim to Faith as well. Why would you do that?
                          Wow, WOW! That puts you into the lead for Mother of all Ironies.

                          ******************

                          On other fronts, here's something for a Christmas laugh .................


                          “At a recent meeting in Chicago, a highly distinguished international panel of experts was polled. All considered the experimental production of life in the laboratory imminent …”
                          (emphasis mine) ...... Simpson, G. G. (1960) The world into which Darwin led us. Science 131: 966–974.

                          That was 57 years ago.
                          Those "distinguished experts" and their unanimous opinion are all unanimously DEAD!

                          Bwahahahahahaaha!!!

                          Go against God and His Word and you will lose - that is 100% guaranteed!
                          Hear that, O-Mudd et al.?

                          Jorge

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            He's not arguing. He's rattling cages (his term).
                            He also serves as an embarrassing testimony against creationists. Aside from his bad writing style, he's not really that much different from what you find in creationist textbooks. The language is cleaner, but the arguments are not any better.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Merry Christmas Jorge

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment

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