Do you believe in zombies?

[One Bad Pig]

I asked if the spirit doesn't die, then what is resurrected. You answered "the body." Now I get what you're saying though, resurrection isn't bringing anything back to life, it's just putting the decayed body back together so the spirit can climb back into it. correct.

Yeah, which is described as coming back to life.

So you're saying that we do ascend, but not to heaven, just up into the clouds somewhere as a meeting place to be made incorruptible and then we come back down again to earth to live forever?

More or less.

Will god make earth incoruptible as well, because otherwise we'll eventually have to find somewhere else to live eternally?

Not just earth, but all of creation (Rev. 21:1).

[Adrift]

More or less, yeah. If you look at an icon of the Dormition (falling asleep) of Mary, you'll see Jesus depicted behind/above the bier holding her soul in his arms. In the Orthodox view, there are two judgments, the particular and general(=white throne). The particular judgment happens after death, and involves examination of one's deeds in life. A significant number of Orthodox hold to the idea of Aerial Toll Houses which we pass through after death and at which our deeds in life are examined. It's not dogma, but it has a long history in the church.

Huh. So like an EO version of Purgatory. Is that a view you hold to?

[Adrift]

Yeah, which is described as coming back to life.

More or less.

Not just earth, but all of creation (Rev. 21:1).

I think that if an honest person were asking these sorts of questions they might get tangled up on what's exactly meant by heaven, and that can be a confusing topic since heaven can refer to the actual physical area above the earth (and perhaps beyond the earth), and it can refer to a/the spiritual domain. And even many Christians are confused about the idea of "going to heaven" when they die, as if that's the final destination, when the Bible seems instead to teach that that's only the beginning.

Part of that confusion comes from the visual given us in the New Testament about Jesus ascending into the clouds after his resurrection; or at the parousia, the dead and living meeting in the clouds. While I believe this is likely intended literally, it has metaphorical implications tied to the Son of Man imagery coming on the clouds in the Old Testament. There's symbolic significance to this cloud language that I can't remember off hand. The dead in Christ do go to "heaven" (they go to Christ in the spiritual heavenlies), but this is temporary, as they wait for the general resurrection. The Bible goes on to paint a picture, post general resurrection, of the New Heavens coming down and overlapping with the New Earth so that the two, in some sense, become one.

[One Bad Pig]

Huh. So like an EO version of Purgatory. Is that a view you hold to?

Eh, there's some overlap in the concepts. I'm not quite sure if I hold to it or not. It makes sense to me that if we're conscious after death, we think about what we've done; it would be easy to dwell on our past mistakes, and there'd be nothing we could *do* to focus our minds elsewhere. It does hold some basis for praying for the dead.

[Sparko]

What else would you call a disemspirited resurrected body?

It won't be resurrected without a spirit.

[JimL]

It won't be resurrected without a spirit.

So is the resurrected body tailored to fit the spirit exactly, or is the spirit flexible so that it can expand or contract in order to fit into their resurrected body? I mean what is the spirit exactly, is it like Decartes homunculus, a tiny thing that sits somewhere in the pineal gland, or is it the image of the body, fitting snuggly into the whole of it like a body in a suit. I mean what would a spirit actually look like if they were visible, do they come in different sizes and shapes like material bodies, or are they all the same size and shape?

[Sparko]

So is the resurrected body tailored to fit the spirit exactly, or is the spirit flexible so that it can expand or contract in order to fit into their resurrected body? I mean what is the spirit exactly, is it like Decartes homunculus, a tiny thing that sits somewhere in the pineal gland, or is it the image of the body, fitting snuggly into the whole of it like a body in a suit. I mean what would a spirit actually look like if they were visible, do they come in different sizes and shapes like material bodies, or are they all the same size and shape?

You know perfectly well what a spirit/soul is, and how resurrection works just from popular culture. Your stoopid act is wearisome.

[JimL]

You know perfectly well what a spirit/soul is, and how resurrection works just from popular culture. Your stoopid act is wearisome.

No, actually I have no idea how to think about a spirit with respect to itself or in its relationship to a body. Do you have any idea, if so I would appreciate answers to the above questions?

[Sparko]

No, actually I have no idea how to think about a spirit with respect to itself or in its relationship to a body. Do you have any idea, if so I would appreciate answers to the above questions?

[JimL]

As I suspected, you have no idea what you are talking about Sparko.

[Sparko]

As I suspected, you have no idea what you are talking about Sparko.

Yep, you caught me out.

[Cow Poke]

...A significant number of Orthodox hold to the idea of Aerial Toll Houses which we pass through after death....

There will be cookies?

[One Bad Pig]

There will be cookies?

[Cerebrum123]

There will be cookies?

Apparently they are so light that they actually fly.

[JimL]

Yep, you caught me out.

Obviously!