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Do you believe in zombies?

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  • Originally posted by JimL View Post
    The story of Jesus and his resurection is an ancient take on zombies.
    False.
    My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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    • Do I believe in zombies?

      I believe in Fido, I'll say that. All the zombie you could ever need.
      I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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      • Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
        False.
        Well, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. The reverse would be more like it, i.e. its more like zombies are a more modern take on the resurrection.

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        • Originally posted by Rational Gaze View Post
          Your entry for the most absurd and self-evidently false claim of the year has been submitted and received. Thank you for your submission.
          Did you HAVE to resurrect this steaming pile?
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

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          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
            Did you HAVE to resurrect this steaming pile?
            Does this make this a zombie thread according to JimL?
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • Originally posted by JimL View Post
              Well, yeah, thanks for pointing that out. The reverse would be more like it, i.e. its more like zombies are a more modern take on the resurrection.
              Also, false.

              A zombie in the modern sense is a diseased organism that has been re-animated by some agent, usually a virus, but is not functionally alive. Think 'The Walking Dead', Resident Evil, etc.

              In Jewish (and thus, by extension, Christian) belief, something is resurrected if and only if there is a complete restoration of the physical body to actual life, following by a supernatural transformation into an immortal, but still physical, version. Hence why Jesus could prevent people from recognising Him initially and phase through things, appearing and disappearing at will, whilst simultaneously could be interacted with physically, and do things that humans could, such as eating fish. This was different even from other raisings, such as that of Lazarus, who was raised from the dead back to biological life, but, presumably, went on to die again.

              There are other varieties of zombie, however. There's the physically dead but nevertheless supernaturally animated kind, i.e. Lichs. There's the Haitian voodoo zombies, which are basically people in trances, and are 'impervious' to harm (sounds kind of like PCP, to be honest). Then there are the P-Zombies, where the lights are on, but nobody is home, so to speak. Kind of like golems. Claiming that Jesus is a zombie is basically committing a fallacy of equivocation.
              My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Did you HAVE to resurrect this steaming pile?
                You didn't burn and salt the bodies.
                My Amazon Author page: https://www.amazon.com/-/e/B0719RS8BK

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                • [ATTACH=CONFIG]27763[/ATTACH] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ATTACH=CONFIG]27763[/ATTACH] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [ATTACH=CONFIG]27763[/ATTACH] xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx[ATTACH=CONFIG]27763[/ATTACH]


                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
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                  • Moonwalk it!

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                    • Originally posted by JimL View Post
                      The story of Jesus and his resurection is an ancient take on zombies. Along with the resurrected Jesus of course, Matthew also has many long dead people, aka zombies, climbing out of their respective graves after an earthquake opened them up. The zombies then walked about the town an appeared to many according to Paul. And how is it that they, the long dead saints, aka zombies, resurrected prior to the resurrection of Jesus? Wasn't he supposed to be first? I don't know, I could be wrong about that. But why is none of this in the other gospels? Why is there no thundering, earthquakes or resurrected zombies walking around mentioned in Mark, Luke or John? Seems like a pretty important part of the story to forget or leave out if true.

                      So, do you believe in zombies, do long dead people resurrect fully intact? And why is this astonishing event not mentioned anywhere other than in Matthew?
                      My theory about this, which I posted “long years ago”, long before the Great Upset that put this site out of use for a while, is, that:

                      1. St Matthew 27.51-53 is based on Ezekiel 37
                      2. That those 3 verses are a theological construction.
                      3. That these words from Ezek. 37:

                      15 The word of the Lord came to me:16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.”

                      - are taken by St Matthew as a prediction of the Crucifixion of Jesus. It would be entirely in St Matthew’s manner to pick up little details like that, and to treat them as finding fulfilment in Christ or His actions.

                      4. That these words from Ezek.37:

                      11 Then he said to me: “Son of man, these bones are the people of Israel. They say, ‘Our bones are dried up and our hope is gone; we are cut off.’12 Therefore prophesy and say to them: ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: My people, I am going to open your graves and bring you up from them; I will bring you back to the land of Israel.13 Then you, my people, will know that I am the Lord, when I open your graves and bring you up from them.14 I will put my Spirit in you and you will live, and I will settle you in your own land. Then you will know that I the Lord have spoken, and I have done it, declares the Lord.’”

                      - are seen by St Matthew as fulfilled in St Matthew 27.51-53. My guess - it is only that - is that Christian belief in the Resurrection of Jesus, and the fact of Crucifuxion, taken with St Matthew’s fondness for seeing the fulfilment of the OT in even the smallest details of the Life of Christ, led St Matthew (or his sources) to put a Resurrection-scene at the Crucifixion. Not because it happened then, but because the return of Christ’s Spirit to His Father is being treated as fulfilling Ezek. 37.14. The connection is causal, theological and thematic, not historical. I don’t think St Matthew is writing history in these 3 verses that are verses 51-53; I think he is writing theology in what looks like (but is not) the form of an historical event. St Matthew may have had a second reason for putting this scene here: because he wanted to emphasise that the Death of Christ is the source of the life of Christians. Those resurrected worthies would therefore, in that case, also have the function of representing the Church.

                      Ezekiel 37.18-28, about how the Davidic King will rule over God’s re-united People of Israel and Judah, could easily be seen by St Matthew as predicting the Kingship of Christ over His re-united People the Jews and Gentiles in His Church. St Matthew sees Christ as primarily the Messiah-King who is the son and successor of David. And Acts 15 shows a prophecy of Amos about the restoration of Israel being treated as a prophecy of the building-up of the Church.

                      Ezek.37.18-28:

                      18 “When your people ask you, ‘Won’t you tell us what you mean by this?’19 say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I am going to take the stick of Joseph—which is in Ephraim’s hand—and of the Israelite tribes associated with him, and join it to Judah’s stick. I will make them into a single stick of wood, and they will become one in my hand.’20 Hold before their eyes the sticks you have written on21 and say to them, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: I will take the Israelites out of the nations where they have gone. I will gather them from all around and bring them back into their own land.22 I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. There will be one king over all of them and they will never again be two nations or be divided into two kingdoms.23 They will no longer defilethemselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding,[b] and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.

                      24
                      “‘My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd.They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children’s children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers,and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the Lord make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.’””

                      This could very easily be applied to the Church, and it agrees with St Paul’s ideas about the Church as Israel, and as peopled, on equal terms, by Jews and Gentiles.

                      Zombies have nothing whatever to do with St Matthew 27.51-53, or with the Resurrection of Christ. Hope that helps.
                      Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 05-15-2018, 01:56 PM.

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