Do you believe in zombies?

[One Bad Pig]

Yes, incorruptible, according to Paul, how he knows this nobody knows, but as i read it, you will resurrect as an incorruptible spirit, not like the saints at Jesus death who were resurrected in the flesh. "Flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of God." So why in the saints case did they resurrect in the flesh?

1) Paul is referring to a spiritual body, not a spirit body.
2) The saints who resurrected when Jesus was raised were raised to life, but that was temporary. It is not until the general resurrection at the end of time that the bodies of all will be changed to something new.

[One Bad Pig]

I'll address this here, Jim.

In social science parlance, when the emperor travels to a city the city dignitaries go to meet him outside the gates and escort him in. Similarly, when Jesus returns, we will rise to meet him in the sky and escort him back down to the ground.

Boy, you guys and your religion sure have some imaginative beliefs. Sure would be fun to fly, eh?

I'd think terrifying, more like.

Will you get a pair of wings along with the your resurrection, or do you just think yourselves into flight?

Neither, as you should know by now; the answer is in 1 Cor 15, which we've been discussing throughout this thread. We will be "caught up" to meet him in the air - it's God who will be doing the moving, not us. It's his creation; pretty sure he can do what he wants with it.

[Sparko]

Yes, incorruptible, according to Paul, how he knows this nobody knows, but as i read it, you will resurrect as an incorruptible spirit, not like the saints at Jesus death who were resurrected in the flesh. "Flesh and blood can not enter the Kingdom of God." So why in the saints case did they resurrect in the flesh?

Your spirit does not die Jim, just your body. So being resurrected as a spirit is an oxymoron. That is just "death" - your spirit has to be reunited with your glorified body to be resurrected. Resurrected means coming back to life. Full life, not zombie life.

[JimL]

Your spirit does not die Jim, just your body. So being resurrected as a spirit is an oxymoron. That is just "death" - your spirit has to be reunited with your glorified body to be resurrected. Resurrected means coming back to life. Full life, not zombie life.

So the body dies, and apparently rots away, but the spirit never dies? Then what? The body is raised from it's grave and the spirit, wherever it was hanging out over the years, comes back to reunite with its body? Where does the spirit pass the time while waiting for it's resurrected body?

[JimL]

1) Paul is referring to a spiritual body, not a spirit body.
2) The saints who resurrected when Jesus was raised were raised to life, but that was temporary. It is not until the general resurrection at the end of time that the bodies of all will be changed to something new.

So the saints resurrection was a different kind of resurrection?

In what sense was it different?

Was the process different? And exactly how does the process work, if you know?

Were their undead spirits just hanging out in the tombs all the while when all of a sudden a new body appears for them to hop into, or do their old rotted bodies recompose and they hop into those.

I think I read that we are given new bodies, so I'm assuming the saints got back their old bodies. Is that how you see it?

[Teallaura]

So the body dies, and apparently rots away, but the spirit never dies? Then what? The body is raised from it's grave and the spirit, wherever it was hanging out over the years, comes back to reunite with its body? Where does the spirit pass the time while waiting for it's resurrected body?

1) Yes, usually, and yes!
2) Body or spirit? I think this one was actually rhetorical but just in case.
3) Yes!
4) There are two schools of thought: A) the soul remains conscious with God (if saved) B) the soul sleeps - there are variations and other considerations this is just the basic answer.

[Adrift]

There are two schools of thought: A) the soul remains conscious with God (if saved) B) the soul sleeps - there are variations and other considerations this is just the basic answer.

I go with N.T. Wright's view from Surprised By Hope that combines the two: They are in a state of conscious repose. Restful, but awaiting the general resurrection when their spirits will be reunited with their (glorified) bodies. In an interview Wright put it this way,

"We know that we will be with God and with Christ, resting and being refreshed. Paul writes that it will be conscious, but compared with being bodily alive, it will be like being asleep. The Wisdom of Solomon, a Jewish text from about the same time as Jesus, says "the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God," and that seems like a poetic way to put the Christian understanding, as well."

[Teallaura]

I go with N.T. Wright's view from Surprised By Hope that combines the two: They are in a state of conscious repose. Restful, but awaiting the general resurrection when their spirits will be reunited with their (glorified) bodies. In an interview Wright put it this way,

"We know that we will be with God and with Christ, resting and being refreshed. Paul writes that it will be conscious, but compared with being bodily alive, it will be like being asleep. The Wisdom of Solomon, a Jewish text from about the same time as Jesus, says "the souls of the righteous are in the hand of God," and that seems like a poetic way to put the Christian understanding, as well."

Someone always has to come along and make it more complicated...

[Adrift]

Someone always has to come along and make it more complicated...

Huh. I see it as a simplification. :) It deals with both those verses that suggest that the dead sleep, and that they're somehow aware of what's happening.

[Christianbookworm]

Maybe drowsy? Because the software isn't on the hardware, it can't function as well, but it still can run some.

[Teallaura]

Huh. I see it as a simplification. :) It deals with both those verses that suggest that the dead sleep, and that they're somehow aware of what's happening.

Maybe, but it's a third view. So now we have 1) awake with God, 2) sleeping and 3) both, sorta.


I wasn't having enough trouble explaining this to him, huh?

[One Bad Pig]

So the saints resurrection was a different kind of resurrection?

In what sense was it different?

It was different in that it stopped at a return to life.

Was the process different?

No.

And exactly how does the process work, if you know?

I haven't the foggiest idea.

Were their undead spirits just hanging out in the tombs all the while when all of a sudden a new body appears for them to hop into, or do their old rotted bodies recompose and they hop into those.

Resurrection would entail the same body, so it would be a recomposition (assuming decomposition, which happens most of the time). This would (obviously) not be a natural process.
I think I read that we are given new bodies, so I'm assuming the saints got back their old bodies. Is that how you see it?[/QUOTE]
Correct.

[Sparko]

So the body dies, and apparently rots away, but the spirit never dies? Then what? The body is raised from it's grave and the spirit, wherever it was hanging out over the years, comes back to reunite with its body? Where does the spirit pass the time while waiting for it's resurrected body?

Philippians 1:121 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. 23 I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. 24 But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

[JimL]

Philippians 1:121 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. So what shall I choose? I do not know. 23 I am torn between the two. I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better indeed. 24 But it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body.

Sounds like an excuse to me for someone who really doesn't want to die who's talking to naive people. But none of that answers to the post it's in reply to anyway.

[JimL]

It was different in that it stopped at a return to life.

Well you say the spirit never dies anyway, so what is it that's brought back to life?

No.

So the process is the same, it's just that the saints slipped back into corruptible bodies, and at the general resurrection christian spirits will slip into incorruptible bodies?

I haven't the foggiest idea.

Well the spirits of the saints must of been hanging out in the tombs along with their decayed old bodies so god must have just puffed a new body in there for all of them to put on. Basically that's how god does things anyway right, just puffs what he thinks into existence?

Resurrection would entail the same body, so it would be a recomposition (assuming decomposition, which happens most of the time). This would (obviously) not be a natural process.

The same body? You mean god puts together the same exact atoms in the same exact way? But how could that be if they are to be incorruptible? There must be something more to it than that, no?

Correct.

But aren't you saying that we all get back our old bodies-recomposition?