Green Tyranny, and why Conservatives Question The Global Warming Meme.

[Leonhard]

And you are wrong, the green movement has been populated by former communists. Not that they are all communists.

Are you saying that the majority of people in the Green movement are communists, or just that communists tend to go there?

[seer]

Are you saying that the majority of people in the Green movement are communists, or just that communists tend to go there?

That communists tend to go there, it is the perfect vehicle for dominance and control, and to undermine free markets. And the people on the ground are no longer shy about it:

https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2014/9/23...munist-agenda/

[Leonhard]

That communists tend to go there,

Even if that's true. So what? That doesn't change the facts of the matter, or whether there's a problem to deal with.

it is the perfect vehicle for dominance and control, and to undermine free markets.

Why? Don't conservative politics have an answer to environmental problems that's consistent with their philosophies? It was Reagan who made commissioned the scientists to study the problem of acid rain, and it was Bush Senior who enacted the Clean Air Act. Both of which have been shown to have had significant effects, matching similar experiences in Scandinavia and in the rest of Europe.

I'd say that if conservative economic doctrines can't answer environmental problems, then that would be a very strong argument against conservative politics.

You guys can do more than just sticking your head in the sand, and shaking in your boots about supposed commies.

I've proposed several conservative ways to help with climate change. For example rolling back all the subsidies, and artifically law land rent and other things that the coal industry currently enjoy. That would put them on a much more level playing field with renewable energy and nuclear power for instance.

[JimL]

Leonhard, if you don't have time to read the book, watch the video link. It gives a good overview. There is no question that the green movement (including the Global Warming movement) is deeply leftist and anti-capitalist. We see this as just another venue for ultimate political control. No matter the science the totalitarian impulse of the left gives us more than a little pause.

Right seer, that's because 99.9% of scientists dealing with the matter are unethical leftists.

[JimL]

That communists tend to go there, it is the perfect vehicle for dominance and control, and to undermine free markets. And the people on the ground are no longer shy about it:

https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2014/9/23...munist-agenda/

So you find a biased conservative media to back up your biased conservative belief and disregard the actual science concerning climate change. There is no doubt that Liberals believe more in government regulated markets than do conservatives, but thats not communism, it's sound reasoning rather than thoughtless ideology.

[Faber]

Not to mention lots of seedy characters.

[seer]

Even if that's true. So what? That doesn't change the facts of the matter, or whether there's a problem to deal with.

What it does do, it points to ulterior motives. And Leonhard, like I mentioned, there is no evidence that a generally warmer earth will be worse over all than a generally colder earth. In any case people like me bristle at this top down control fueled by near apocalyptic predictions.

Why? Don't conservative politics have an answer to environmental problems that's consistent with their philosophies? It was Reagan who made commissioned the scientists to study the problem of acid rain, and it was Bush Senior who enacted the Clean Air Act. Both of which have been shown to have had significant effects, matching similar experiences in Scandinavia and in the rest of Europe.

We are, we have more wind power than any other country beside China:https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...sPAkkQ9QEIKzAA

We have reduced our C02 footprint to 1990s levels, due largely to natural gas and tax incentives. We need more nuclear, but the left keeps blocking such proposals.

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...eenhouse-gase/

[seer]

So you find a biased conservative media to back up your biased conservative belief and disregard the actual science concerning climate change. There is no doubt that Liberals believe more in government regulated markets than do conservatives, but thats not communism, it's sound reasoning rather than thoughtless ideology.

No Jim, we are just watching what they actually say...

[seer]

Right seer, that's because 99.9% of scientists dealing with the matter are unethical leftists.

That does not change the fact that Communists have infiltrated the green movement.

[Leonhard]

What it does do, it points to ulterior motives.

So you're saying climate change is a problem for conservatives? That it is something they have a hard time dealing with if, as the consensus indicates, that its true? Otherwise, if conservative philosophy, economics etc can deal with it, and you have your own battle plan, why then bother about supposed communists?

And again, I highly dispute that all of climate science, which is quite an international project was founded by communists. Again, there are almost no communists left.

We are, we have more wind power than any other country beside China:[url]https://www.google.com/imgres?

True, though Denmark has more wind power per capita.

Though we started more early than you, have more favorable wind conditions and we can export surplus electricity to water damns in Norway and Sweden for storage.

We have reduced our C02 footprint to 1990s levels, due largely to natural gas and tax incentives.

Well there you, now focus on that instead.

We need more nuclear, but the left keeps blocking such proposals.

I'm every bit as much a fan of nuclear power as you are seer. I'd love to see more of it. And for a reform of all the red tape which happened after various nuclear accidents. Nuclear power's infancy has had some trouble which led to a widespread fear about it. Everyone wants cheap electricity, but no one wants a nuclear power plant in their backyard.

Besides once you add in the mandatory safety buffer between the plant and anything else, you could just tear down the plant and cover the area with photovoltaic cells and a ton of batteries, and it would produce just as much in say Arizona.

[carpedm9587]

Leonhard, if you don't have time to read the book, watch the video link. It gives a good overview. There is no question that the green movement (including the Global Warming movement) is deeply leftist and anti-capitalist. We see this as just another venue for ultimate political control. No matter the science the totalitarian impulse of the left gives us more than a little pause.

Totalitarian impulse of the left...?

[Leonhard]

Totalitarian impulse of the left...?

Maybe regulations and bodies like the CDC, FCC and EPA are totalitarian I think is the gist. I don't exactly understand it either.

[Mountain Man]

Rupert Darwall's latest book "Green Tyranny" documents the connections between Communism and the green movement. The "reds" simply turned "green" - they are deeply anti-free market and totalitarian. The video is a good primer:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?437839-1/green-tyranny

Of course if you actually attend green rallies they are not shy about it:

https://pjmedia.com/zombie/2014/9/23...munist-agenda/

So forgive us if we suspect ulterior motives in the Global Warming movement...

This has been obvious to me ever since I noticed that every proposed solution to "global warming" was little more than the liberal social agenda wishlist.

[carpedm9587]

Leonhard, conservatives lead towards free market solutions, socialists lead towards top down government control. That is the bottom line. As far as coal, it is dependable, generally cheap, abundant, with a good BTU. And you are wrong, the green movement has been populated by former communists. Not that they are all communists.

No - that is the right-wing mantra ABOUT the left - not the actual position of the left. I know many who are extremely left leaning, and not a single one believes in "big government" or "top-down control." They believe the government is a tool - nothing more. It is good for some jobs, and not for others. The left and right disagree on which jobs the government is good for - with the list on the left normally being longer than the one on the right. But I know of no leftist that doesn't value freedom, minimal government intrusion in daily life, government "out of the bedroom," adequate security, and so forth. I know no leftist that does not value the Constitution, or the protections afforded by the Bill of Rights.

There are a lot of sweeping generalities being made here - and they are right wing talking points; they are not really based in reality. The the "totalitarian" aspirations of the left is just the stuff of conspiracy theories, IMO.

In a like vein, the left has its own "anti-right" memes. Continually portraying the right as racist or misogyistic is a good example. I know many people who are right of center, all the way out to the far right. I personally do not know a single person on the right that is racist or misogynistic.

Perhaps leaving these "us vs. them" memes aside so we can actually engage in discussions might be a good thing?

[demi-conservative]

Totalitarian impulse of the left...?

Maybe regulations and bodies like the CDC, FCC and EPA are totalitarian I think is the gist. I don't exactly understand it either.

Germany going to outlaw combustion engine cars, UK following also. France, also California wants to follow.

What else is left?? '''''''Green''''''' engines!!

So Al Gore, also other charlatans who invest in '''''''green''''''' energy companies strike big bucks!!!