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Thread: Review of the Russian collusion narrative

  1. #221
    Professor Cerebrum123's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    Why should he start now?
    This reminds me of a line on DuckTales Remastered.

    Launchpad: "Mr McD, I've been thinking".
    Scrooge: "Oh Launchpad, why ruin a perfect record"?


  2. Amen Cow Poke, rogue06 amen'd this post.
  3. #222
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Well whichever fake news site it is that you watch then. You obviously have no idea what is going on.
    As for myself I watch CNN Headline News the most, Bloomberg News second, Fox News third and MSNBC fourth.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    You're by far the worst poster on TWeb -- starlight

  4. #223
    radical strawberry
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    It's been a while since I looked at Rosenstein's order.

    APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
    TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE
    2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

    With folks talking about the scope of the investigation, maybe it's time to review.

    (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

    (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

    (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

    (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

    (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

    (d) Sections 600.4 through 600.l0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

    § 600.4 Jurisdiction.

    (a) Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

    While "links and/or coordination" is already a wide ambit, § 600.4 (b) provides for further expansion upon request of the special counsel and approval of the Attorney General. This was used during Starr's Whitewater investigation.
    Last edited by lao tzu; 01-14-2018 at 01:44 PM.

  5. #224
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    It's been a while since I looked at Rosenstein's order.

    APPOINTMENT OF SPECIAL COUNSEL
    TO INVESTIGATE RUSSIAN INTERFERENCE WITH THE
    2016 PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AND RELATED MATTERS

    With folks talking about the scope of the investigation, maybe it's time to review.

    (b) The Special Counsel is authorized to conduct the investigation confirmed by then-FBI Director James 8. Corney in testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence on March 20, 2017, including:

    (i) any links and/or coordination between the Russian government and individuals associated with the campaign of President Donald Trump; and

    (ii) any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation; and

    (iii) any other matters within the scope of 28 C.F.R. § 600.4(a).

    (c) If the Special Counsel believes it is necessary and appropriate, the Special Counsel is authorized to prosecute federal crimes arising from the investigation of these matters.

    (d) Sections 600.4 through 600.l0 of Title 28 of the Code of Federal Regulations are applicable to the Special Counsel.

    § 600.4 Jurisdiction.

    (a) Original jurisdiction. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall be established by the Attorney General. The Special Counsel will be provided with a specific factual statement of the matter to be investigated. The jurisdiction of a Special Counsel shall also include the authority to investigate and prosecute federal crimes committed in the course of, and with intent to interfere with, the Special Counsel's investigation, such as perjury, obstruction of justice, destruction of evidence, and intimidation of witnesses; and to conduct appeals arising out of the matter being investigated and/or prosecuted.

    While "links and/or coordination" is already a wide ambit, § 600.4 (b) provides for further expansion upon request of the special counsel and approval of the Attorney General. This was used during Starr's Whitewater investigation.
    Interesting. Probably never happen I know, but the way I read section 600.4 certain members of Congress, (Devin Nunez, Chuck Grassley, et al) could also be under investigation for obstruction of justice. I suppose it depends on the how the term "obstruction" is defined by the law, don't know, but they've certainly been obstructing in my view.

  6. #225
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Interesting. Probably never happen I know, but the way I read section 600.4 certain members of Congress, (Devin Nunez, Chuck Grassley, et al) could also be under investigation for obstruction of justice. I suppose it depends on the how the term "obstruction" is defined by the law, don't know, but they've certainly been obstructing in my view.
    Nah. I'm fairly sure Nunez and Grassley are well within the letter of the law, and if they're not, I'm content to wait for Mueller to tell us all about it. The president, on the other hand, has been less than circumspect, to the point where you sometimes wonder whether he's receiving legal counsel at all, an entirely different question from whether that counsel is being provided.

    The two big questions I have are first, why Trump, the guy with no filter, has been so careful in avoiding any criticism of Putin, and second, why he was so intent to get Flynn off the hook. The first, even before we look at information from the Steele dossier, strongly suggests Putin's got him compromised. The second suggests Flynn does too.

    I have confidence in Mueller. If there's fire behind the smoke, we'll know it soon enough. When they're talking about interviewing the president, they're saying the first phase of the investigation is nearly finished. There will be a second phase. I suspect the push to bring Manafort to trial is intended to turn him, too. The Steele dossier named him as the first direct contact for Russian intelligence being provided to the campaign.

  7. #226
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    And it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign and is wholly lacking credibility?

  8. #227
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign and is wholly lacking credibility?
    That's begging both questions: whether the Steele dossier was influenced by its source of funding, and how much of the dossier is credible.

    From Simpson's testimony, Steele was given an open-ended assignment, but not otherwise directed.

    pp. 82-83, [line numbers cleared for readability]

    Q. [Heather Sawyer, Chief Oversight Counsel, Senator Feinstein] And specific to the engagement with regard to the research on Candidate Trump, why did you specifically ask Mr. Steele to do that work?

    A. [Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS] The way our firm runs we pursue things, you know, somewhat out of curiosity. So we didn't know -- it was opaque what Donald Trump had been doing on these business trips to Russia. We didn't know what he was doing there. So I gave Chris -- we gave Chris a sort of assignment that would be typical for us which was pretty open ended. We said see if you can find out what Donald Trump's been doing on these trips to Russia.

    Since Chris and I worked together over the years there's a lot that didn't need to be said. That would include who is he doing business with, which hotels does he like to stay at, you know, did anyone ever offer him anything, you know, the standard sort of things you would look at. I don't think I gave him any specific instructions beyond the general find out what he was up to.

    The Steele dossier is basically raw intelligence, so we should expect inaccuracies. I'm comfortable leaving judgments of its overall credibility with the specialists. That's not to say there hasn't been confirmation of individual findings.

    Regarding Carter Page ...

    [Glenn Simpson, Fusion GPS] So, you know, we would evaluate his memos based on whether he told us something we didn't know from somewhere else that we were then able to run down. So, you know, for example, he, you know, wrote a memo about a Trump campaign advisor named Carter Page and his mysterious trip to Moscow.

    [... long ...]

    Of course, you know, when we talk about things in the dossier that are confirmed, this is one of the things that I think really stands out as notable, which is that Chris identified Carter Page as someone who had -- seemed to be in the middle of the campaign, between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin, and he later turned out to be an espionage suspect who was, in fact, someone that the FBI had been investigating for years.

    Regarding Sergei Ivanov, pp. 236 ff.

    So we looked into Carter Page and we also looked into Igor Sechin and whether Sergei Ivanov was in a position to be managing the election operation, which is what 94 talks about, and we determined that he was.

    [...]

    Before I got this memo I didn't know about this internal Kremlin structure. It was either this one or the previous one. So in the course of saying who is this Ivanov guy, you know, we looked at Ivanov and found journal articles and other public information about his long history of intelligence. He's a veteran of the FSB, his long history with Vladimir Putin, and his role atop this internal operation.

    Simpson's description of Steele is telling.

    He was the lead Russianist at MI6 prior to leaving the government and an extremely well-regarded investigator, researcher, and, as I say, we're friends and share interest in Russian kleptocracy and organized crime issues.

    [... long ...]

    So -- I mean, I hope you won't be insulted, but he's basically a Boy Scout. You know, he worked for the government for a very long time. He lives a very modest, quiet life, and, you know, this is his specialty.

    Fusion GPS is a group of former WSJ financial reporters concentrating on open source material. That's as non-partisan as it gets. It should also be noted that Simpson testified on Prevezon and the Magnitsky act as well.

    Regarding William Browder, Magnitsky's boss,

    At that point somewhere in there the Panama papers came out and we discovered that he had incorporated shell companies offshore in the mid 1990s, in 1995 I believe it was in the British Virgin Islands, and that at some point his hedge fund's shares had been transferred to this offshore company.

    This offshore company was managed -- several of his offshore companies were managed by the Panamanian law firm called Mossack Fonseca, M-O-S-S-A-C-K, Fonseca, F-O-N-S-E-C-A, which is known now for setting up offshore companies for drug kingpins, narcos, kleptos, you name it. They were servicing every bad guy around. And I'm familiar with them from other money laundering and corruption and tax evasion investigations that I've done.

    I'll note parenthetically that William Browder talks a lot about the Panama papers and the Russians who are in the Panama papers without ever mentioning that he's in the Panama papers. This is, again, a public fact that you can check on-line.

    These guys look like pros, and look like they subcontract to pros, too. Like any information, the material in the dossier isn't enough without corroboration, but that doesn't bother me, it's just a fact.

    In any case, the suggestion that the opposition research was inaccurate because of its funding, and more, that the dossier itself wholly lacks credibility, is unwarranted.
    Last edited by lao tzu; 01-14-2018 at 06:31 PM.

  9. #228
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    The Steele dossier is basically raw intelligence, so we should expect inaccuracies.
    Oh, is that the latest excuse? I hadn't heard that one yet.

  10. #229
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lao tzu View Post
    It's been a while since I looked at Rosenstein's order.
    The Fire and Fury book is interesting with regard to Rosenstein - it suggests his number one life goal was to be the best civil servant he possible could who always did things 'by the book' and was apolitical. As a result, when Trump forced Rosenstein to approve the "why Comey should be fired" memo and drew Rosenstein into the Comey-firing mess, it really upset the guy because he felt his career as the perfect civil servant had been tainted. So Rosenstein responded by getting by-the-book revenge of using his power to appoint a special prosecutor, and he made sure it was the best special prosecutor possible with an unimpeachable reputation and he granted him wide-ranging authority.

    I hadn't realized until recently that Rosenstein was solely responsible for Mueller's appointment - I had naively assumed it was a congressional panel and had thought "well at least something Congress does is functioning because they got it right with Mueller".

  11. #230
    tWebber Starlight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And it doesn't bother you that the Steele dossier was bought and paid for by Hillary's campaign
    I believe it had previously been funded by other sources and only at the end did the Hillary campaign take over the funding of it.

    and is wholly lacking credibility?
    It keeps being repeatedly and systematically confirmed as true. You're in lala land if you think it's all false.

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