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Thread: Fulfilled prophecy - There will always be Jewish people

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Fulfilled prophecy - There will always be Jewish people

    Isaiah 34:16 "Look in the scroll of the Lord and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together."

    Jeremiah 31:35-37 This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the Lord Almighty is his name: "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight," declares the Lord, "will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me." This is what the Lord says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the Lord.

    And we may note that there have been attempts time and again to remove the Jewish nation, Psalm 83 speaks of one instance, the book of Esther documents another, and recently, Hitler tried, and all of them failed.

    We may also notice that ten tribes of Israel were deported to Assyria, where they were apparently absorbed by that nation, but this did not happen to the two tribes deported to Babylon. So this is an indication that the Israelite nation has passed through narrow gates in fulfillment of this prophecy, it should also be mentioned here that Israel was without a homeland for almost 2000 years, and yet the Jewish people retained their national identity, which is again, remarkable, and makes the fulfillment of this prophecy by chance even more improbable. And no matter how probable or improbable this might be, for every period of (for example) one thousand years, we may pick any probability estimate P for this period, and the overall probability for two such periods is P*P, for three, it is P*P*P, this gets smaller and smaller quickly, this gets below any small value you can pick, below any threshold of what anyone might reasonably expect. And yet, there are still Jewish people. It is said that a king one day asked his minister to give him a one word argument for the existence of God. "The Jews," his minister answered, "the answer to your majesty's question is the Jews."

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  2. Amen LostSheep, KingsGambit, Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    This is definitely one of the strongest arguments for Christianity (well, technically, Judeo-Christianity since it would support Judaism too, but you get my point.)
    For what was given to everyone for the use of all, you have taken for your exclusive use. The earth belongs not to the rich, but to everyone. - Ambrose, 4th century AD

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  4. Amen LostSheep, lee_merrill, Jedidiah amen'd this post.
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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Isaiah 34:16 "Look in the scroll of the Lord and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together."

    Jeremiah 31:35-37 This is what the Lord says, he who appoints the sun to shine by day, who decrees the moon and stars to shine by night, who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar-- the Lord Almighty is his name: "Only if these decrees vanish from my sight," declares the Lord, "will the descendants of Israel ever cease to be a nation before me." This is what the Lord says: "Only if the heavens above can be measured and the foundations of the earth below be searched out will I reject all the descendants of Israel because of all they have done," declares the Lord.

    And we may note that there have been attempts time and again to remove the Jewish nation, Psalm 83 speaks of one instance, the book of Esther documents another, and recently, Hitler tried, and all of them failed.

    We may also notice that ten tribes of Israel were deported to Assyria, where they were apparently absorbed by that nation, but this did not happen to the two tribes deported to Babylon. So this is an indication that the Israelite nation has passed through narrow gates in fulfillment of this prophecy, it should also be mentioned here that Israel was without a homeland for almost 2000 years, and yet the Jewish people retained their national identity, which is again, remarkable, and makes the fulfillment of this prophecy by chance even more improbable. And no matter how probable or improbable this might be, for every period of (for example) one thousand years, we may pick any probability estimate P for this period, and the overall probability for two such periods is P*P, for three, it is P*P*P, this gets smaller and smaller quickly, this gets below any small value you can pick, below any threshold of what anyone might reasonably expect. And yet, there are still Jewish people. It is said that a king one day asked his minister to give him a one word argument for the existence of God. "The Jews," his minister answered, "the answer to your majesty's question is the Jews."

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The ten tribes of Israel were not "lost"; in neither deportation was the entire population moved - only its leaders. What remained intermarried with the people brought in and became known as the Samaritans (which are still - barely - with us today). It's also quite possible that some of the Diaspora at the time of Christ were descended from the ten tribes of Israel.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    It's also quite possible that some of the Diaspora at the time of Christ were descended from the ten tribes of Israel.
    Yes, Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Yes, Paul was of the tribe of Benjamin...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    The tribe of Benjamin was not one of the ten tribes of Israel; it was the only tribe which stuck with Judah (the Levites did too, but they don't count in this enumeration because they were assigned to cities, not a chunk of land).
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    This is definitely one of the strongest arguments for Christianity (well, technically, Judeo-Christianity since it would support Judaism too, but you get my point.)
    Technically it's just Christianity, which already includes ancient Judaism in its background. Judeo-Christianity is a modern construct and implies modern Judaism has some sort of legitimacy so I'd avoid using it.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    The tribe of Benjamin was not one of the ten tribes of Israel; it was the only tribe which stuck with Judah (the Levites did too, but they don't count in this enumeration because they were assigned to cities, not a chunk of land).
    So you're not going to let me count Barnabas? Or Zacharias and Elizabeth, come to think of it.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  10. #8
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    So you're not going to let me count Barnabas? Or Zacharias and Elizabeth, come to think of it.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Barnabas was a Levite. So was Zacharias. Elizabeth, as a cousin of Mary, was presumably of the tribe of Judah.

    I will grant you Anna the prophetess, however; she was of the tribe of Asher.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Barnabas was a Levite. So was Zacharias. Elizabeth, as a cousin of Mary, was presumably of the tribe of Judah.
    Oops, yes.

    I will grant you Anna the prophetess, however; she was of the tribe of Asher.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

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