Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 26

Thread: Why wait?

  1. #11
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    35,080
    Amen (Given)
    3119
    Amen (Received)
    17098
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    As long as I don't fall away, I'm still being saved.
    well if you are in the process of being saved, then you can't know if you will go to heaven or not if you die right now, right? Or do you mean you are saved, as long as you remain "in the process" and don't stray away?

  2. #12
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    DownUnder
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,657
    Amen (Given)
    151
    Amen (Received)
    544
    8 occurrences of "saved" in Romans. 1 is in aorist tense, the rest are future (including a couple that are OT citations).
    5 occurrences of "saved" in 1 Corinthians. present, aorist, future.
    1 occurrence in 2 Corinthians: it's a present participle - aorist participle might indicate that "saved" is completed, present is open ended.
    No occurrences of perfect tense, which would declare the current condition as a completed action. (in the epistles listed.)
    Kind of hard to show that "saved" is a done deal.
    Last edited by tabibito; 01-09-2018 at 04:55 PM.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  3. #13
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Inside the beltway
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,894
    Amen (Given)
    4844
    Amen (Received)
    8764
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    well if you are in the process of being saved, then you can't know if you will go to heaven or not if you die right now, right? Or do you mean you are saved, as long as you remain "in the process" and don't stray away?
    As long as I am in the process, I see no reason to doubt where I'll end up, but I don't take it for granted.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  4. #14
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northern Hemisphere
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    8,575
    Amen (Given)
    4870
    Amen (Received)
    1573
    So, sanctification?
    Justification = I have been saved

    Sanctification = I am being saved

    Glorification = I will be saved
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  5. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  6. #15
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    DownUnder
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,657
    Amen (Given)
    151
    Amen (Received)
    544
    Ephesians - 2 occurrences of "saved" - both in the perfect tense.
    1 Thessalonians - 1 occurrence - aorist but subjunctive (might be saved)
    2 Thessalonians - 1 occurrence - infinitive - not receive the truth to be saved.
    1 Timothy - 2 occurrence - infinitive - God wants all to be saved. future.
    2 Timothy - 1 occurrence - aorist participle - "did saving"
    Titus - 1 occurrence - aorist - saved
    1 Peter - 2 occurrences - Aorist ... strengthened form, applies to Noah and family. present
    2 Peter - 1 occurrence - sozo is not the word here, feidomai "spared" again referring to action in the distant past
    Jude - 1 occurrence - aorist participle referring to the time of the exodus
    Revelation - 1 occurrence - present participle with a future referent.

    There is just enough to make a closer examination of context advisable.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  7. #16
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    DownUnder
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    3,657
    Amen (Given)
    151
    Amen (Received)
    544
    Quote Originally Posted by Christianbookworm View Post
    So, sanctification?
    Justification = I have been saved

    Sanctification = I am being saved

    Glorification = I will be saved
    Would that it were so simple.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  8. #17
    tWebber Christianbookworm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Northern Hemisphere
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Female
    Posts
    8,575
    Amen (Given)
    4870
    Amen (Received)
    1573
    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Would that it were so simple.
    You are making it too complicated. Having our sins forgiven is wonderful, but we still need character development to become good people. And of course we want to someday be made perfect. Oh, and being saved is easy, but being a good disciple is hard. Being a good disciple is what might get rewarded in Heaven.
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  9. Amen Jedidiah, Obsidian amen'd this post.
  10. #18
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    35,080
    Amen (Given)
    3119
    Amen (Received)
    17098
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    As long as I am in the process, I see no reason to doubt where I'll end up, but I don't take it for granted.
    John in 1 John 5 says believers can know they HAVE eternal life. Not might get it.

  11. Amen Jedidiah, Obsidian amen'd this post.
  12. #19
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Inside the beltway
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    14,894
    Amen (Given)
    4844
    Amen (Received)
    8764
    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    John in 1 John 5 says believers can know they HAVE eternal life. Not might get it.
    Where do you see me saying I might get it? My last phrase is an allusion to James 2; I don't assume I can profess faith and then do whatever I feel like, but need to actively live my faith. Does Paul say it's copacetic to lay down on the track and take a nap, or to run the race in order to win the prize?
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio

    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

  13. #20
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    35,080
    Amen (Given)
    3119
    Amen (Received)
    17098
    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Where do you see me saying I might get it? My last phrase is an allusion to James 2; I don't assume I can profess faith and then do whatever I feel like, but need to actively live my faith. Does Paul say it's copacetic to lay down on the track and take a nap, or to run the race in order to win the prize?
    easy piggy.

    You said you had to work at being saved, that it was a process. I just wanted to know how you could know when you were far enough along to go to heaven when you die, or is it "as long as you keep working at it you will get to heaven"?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •