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5 Reasons an Atheist Changed His Mind About Religion

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Since I was mentioned in regard to that view in the context of teleology, let me point out that I do not find "the argument from design" at all compelling in any way, shape or form, and that it comprises 0% of my reasons for thinking the view seems a likely one.

    There might be turtles a long way down. I have no problem with that, perhaps it is even likely. I don't think we're in any position to make claims about what's below the turtles, in the same way that Super Mario within his computer game, as he exists within that world inside this world, is in no position to make claims about our world.

    But I think it's extremely presumptive to assume that there is not allowed to be anything between the First Cause and our universe coming into existence, the way most theists are prone to do.
    First, I have to admit this is a response to something I posted 2 weeks ago, I don't remember the entire discussion, and I haven't gone back to read it. With any luck - my responses will be consistent.

    I don't disagree with the points you make here. We know the universe we experience came into being at the so-called "Big Bang," but we do not know what came before. I am comfortable with saying, "I don't know" when asked about what caused the Big Bang or what came before. Infinite regression (turtles all the way down) makes me uncomfortable, but I have to admit I cannot rule it out as a possibility. As I said, I don't know. If it is infinite regression, then First Cause appears to be a moot point. It's also not clear to me that First Cause must be sentient. We simply don't know.

    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    I feel like you're ignoring the extent to which the secularization of politics in the Enlightenment, and subsequent increasingly widespread adoption of utilitarianism as the de facto moral code for use by legislators, have had.
    I think our views of history are different is scope. Christianity has been a dominanating influence in the west since Constantine. The Enlightenment dates to the 18th century, and we STILL are living with the resulting tension between religion and science, between secular and spiritual. One can argue that the entire U.S. experiment was rooted in the enlightenment, yet to this very day we are struggling to keep religion and government separate, and having arguments about it. My experience is that the same is not as much true in Europe. Remember that many of the earliest American immigrants (i.e., colonists) left Europe to avoid religious oppression. Then came the enlightenment, which profounding impacted Europe. Meanwhile, here in the U.S., the "religious refugees" began the process of founding a nation. They explicitly wanted state and religion to be kept separate (hence the 1st Amendment), but most of them were deeply religious men, and even to this day, most U.S. citizens still associate (to some degree) with a Christian sect. To suggest otherwise is to turn a blind eye to the raging fight of LGBTQ rights, over abortion, etc.

    But the U.S. is, I believe, moving more and more to the European model, where religion appears to waning in influence, but the influence still exists and is real. It is stronger rurally than it is urbanly; it is stronger on the right than on the left; but it still storngly influences the discussion. Note that even a reprehensible man like Trump suddenly feels a need to position himself as "a man of god" to gain the favor of this significant political force. And an open atheist has little/no chance of being elected to a high office in the U.S. That is changing, but we're not there yet.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Adrift View Post
      So I occasionally wander to another theology forum, and found this encouraging from one of their resident atheists,

      I’d just like to explain the five main reasons why I changed my mind about religion.

      5- Many of my foundational arguments were much weaker than I had suspected. was initially convinced that the Bible was plagiarised from Pagan myths, filled with scientific errors (true) and bad morality. Whilst I never outright denied the existence of Jesus (nor did I believe the Catholic Church taught the Earth was flat or that Hitler was motivated by Christianity, or that Christianity was unevocqually pro-slavery), I did believe elements of his story were taken from earlier pagan deities such as Mithras and Krishna (I was aware that the Horus stuff was a load of BS however). I later of course discovered this was completely wrong.

      4- Realising atheists do not have the monopoly on truth, as they think they do. This is linked to the first point. Thanks to Tim O’Neill, Ben Stanhope and others I have realised the hypocritical promotion of junk historical theories by almost the entire movement. Whilst it does not convince me of God, it certainly means that I will never again associate my self with the movement of New Atheism.

      3- I do see evidence for some form of design. I find it hard to see how the laws which govern the universe could have came about through naturalism.

      2- Christianity and Judaism are the only two religions I have seen which give some form of explanation for ‘why’ God would go through the trouble of creation. After reading John Walton’s Lost World, I’m convinced it is to function as a temple to him.

      1- Perhaps the most important reason for me is realising how foundational Christianity is to liberal, western values. New Atheists do not like to hear it, but our ideas on Liberty, Dignity and Equality do have a greater basis in Christianity than anything else. I’m in no way suggesting that you can’t be good without God, you can, but we can’t expect everbody to intellectually rationalise things. I feel as though eventually, as western countries lose their foundational values through secularism, we will inevitably turn to chaos.

      There you go, that is the reason why 2017 was the year I changed my mind, probably for good.
      Reference please.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
        Reference please.
        We don't allow linking to other forums.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          Reference please.
          I used the whole first sentence as a search term. It took me to the BioLogos forum, to a page containing the whole of the post in post 1 of this thread. The post on BioLogos was the first in a thread of 586, and was created on January 7, presumably this year.

          Hope that helps, since linking to it is not possible.

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