Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
    To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine that any Christian would mistakenly refer to his "Muslim faith" in an interview like Obama did.

    But none of us can really know who is and isn't a Christian. We can only judge people by what they do.
    Since he was talking about how some folks accused him of being a closet Muslim such a slip up is not at all hard to understand.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
      MM, it is beneath you to pass on false stories. In the interview you cite, Obama was not making a reference to having a Muslim faith, he was noting McCain was NOT pushing forward the rumor that he had a Muslim faith. The various ways the right has edited his statements to make this claim can be found here: https://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/tr...ng-room-floor/

      The text of the original interview can be found here: https://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp
      Snopes...

      Except Stephanopoulos knew what Obama was trying to say and immediately corrected him: "You mean your Christan faith?"

      Of course Snopes cut that part of the transcript.
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        Snopes...

        Except Stephanopoulos knew what Obama was trying to say and immediately corrected him: "You mean your Christan faith?"

        Of course Snopes cut that part of the transcript.
        Actually - that part of the transcript is further below - if you had kept reading. As for the "correction," the video (when played out) shows it was the correction that threw Obama. The interviewer cut him off before he could finish his sentence. Obama clarified in the next sentences.

        I figured you would probably dismiss Snopes - but the text of the interview is accurate (based on videos available online). I also find it interesting that most of the versions of it posted on Youtube that are from right-leaning sources cut the interview off right after the correction, whereas those from left-leaning sources let it play out to his comments after the "correction."

        The right is pushing forward a conspiracy theory with this one. They should know better. Creatively editing a soundbite to push a conspiracy theory is simply unethical.
        Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-20-2018, 10:30 AM.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Dimbulb View Post
          His number of cumulative lies hit 2000 on Jan 9 according to the WaPo fact-checkers.
          Considering that "WaPo" has promulgated some of the biggest lies about Trump over the past years, they're not a particularly credible source.

          And anybody who takes an honest look at these lists will recognize pretty quickly that overwhelming majority of them are not actually lies. The "fact checkers" take pretty much anything Trump says and give it some twist in order to call it a lie, but the vast majority of them are differences of opinion, or they simply disagree with something Trump said, or they don't think Trump will be able to fulfill a promise, or they interpret a piece of data differently, or they call it a lie when Trump uses hyperbole or rounds a dollar figure. It's all pretty silly. If that's the standard for lying then any one of us tell countless "lies" every single day.
          Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-20-2018, 10:42 AM.
          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
          Than a fool in the eyes of God


          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

          Comment


          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
            Actually - that part of the transcript is further below - if you had kept reading. As for the "correction," the video (when played out) shows it was the correction that threw Obama. The interviewer cut him off before he could finish his sentence. Obama clarified in the next sentences.
            It's clear from the context what Obama was trying to say, and Stephanopoulos knew Obama had slipped up in a major way and jumped in to give him cover.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
              It's clear from the context what Obama was trying to say, and Stephanopoulos knew Obama had slipped up in a major way and jumped in to give him cover.
              Not at all. It seems absolutely clear to me that he's using "my Muslim faith" in the context of what the conversation is about, which was him being accused of being a Muslim by some Republicans. Stephanopoulos clearly wasn't following the course of the conversation, because it doesn't even make sense that Obama would agree that McCain was above playing games for not accusing Obama of...being a Christian. When Stephanopoulos corrects Obama and says "my Christian faith", it obviously trips up Obama's train of thought, and he just sort of goes with it.

              The words "my Muslim faith" were clearly intended to be understood with mental quote marks around them. Honestly, it seems peculiar that anyone could watch or read the interview and come away with any other opinion.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Considering that "WaPo" has promulgated some of the biggest lies about Trump over the past years, they're not a particularly credible source.

                And anybody who takes an honest look at these lists will recognize pretty quickly that overwhelming majority of them are not actually lies. The "fact checkers" take pretty much anything Trump says and give it some twist in order to call it a lie, but the vast majority of them are differences of opinion, or they simply disagree with something Trump said, or they don't think Trump will be able to fulfill a promise, or they interpret a piece of data differently, or they call it a lie when Trump uses hyperbole or rounds a dollar figure. It's all pretty silly. If that's the standard for lying then any one of us tell countless "lies" every single day.
                One of the biggest problems with the supposed "fact checkers" is that they tend to not check what someone actually says but rather what they interpret what they meant. Thus outright whoppers by those they are allied with often get twisted into something else and true statements by those they don't like get distorted into falsehoods.

                That said, Trump, just like Obama before him, does play fast and loose with the facts

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  It's clear from the context what Obama was trying to say, and Stephanopoulos knew Obama had slipped up in a major way and jumped in to give him cover.
                  Wow - talk about selective interpretation. You really DO see what you want to see, MM...
                  The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                  I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    MM, it is beneath you to pass on false stories.
                    No, it isn't carpe, it's MM's forte. It may be that he believes them, but he certainly passes them on.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      Wow - talk about selective interpretation. You really DO see what you want to see, MM...
                      That knife cuts both ways, my friend.
                      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                      Than a fool in the eyes of God


                      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                        That knife cuts both ways, my friend.
                        Not in this case...

                        Or many others. Sorry, MM. I thought more of you, but your susceptibility to conspiracy theories that align with your worldview is...well...pretty obvious.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • I'd like clarification on something. Mountain Man, are you saying that Obama is a secret Muslim? And if you are not advancing that claim, what is your point supposed to be?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Terraceth View Post
                            I'd like clarification on something. Mountain Man, are you saying that Obama is a secret Muslim? And if you are not advancing that claim, what is your point supposed to be?
                            Isn't that a part of the standard narrative among Trump and his 'birther' supporters.
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              It's clear from the context what Obama was trying to say, and Stephanopoulos knew Obama had slipped up in a major way and jumped in to give him cover.
                              It seems you're already committed to this idea, so I'm not sure I can convince you otherwise, but here's the full transcript.

                              "Full Quote — Obama: You’re absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith and you’re absolutely right that that has not …
                              Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Your Christian faith.
                              Obama: My Christian faith. Well, what I’m saying …
                              Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Connections, right.
                              Obama (continuing) is that he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim, and I think that his campaign upper echelons have not either. What I think is fair to say is that coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I’m not what who I say I am when it comes to my faith, something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time."

                              Its pretty clear that he's referencing the accusations made against him.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                                It seems you're already committed to this idea, so I'm not sure I can convince you otherwise, but here's the full transcript.

                                "Full Quote — Obama: You’re absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith and you’re absolutely right that that has not …
                                Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Your Christian faith.
                                Obama: My Christian faith. Well, what I’m saying …
                                Stephanopoulos (interrupting): Connections, right.
                                Obama (continuing) is that he hasn’t suggested that I’m a Muslim, and I think that his campaign upper echelons have not either. What I think is fair to say is that coming out of the Republican camp, there have been efforts to suggest that perhaps I’m not what who I say I am when it comes to my faith, something which I find deeply offensive, and that has been going on for a pretty long time."

                                Its pretty clear that he's referencing the accusations made against him.
                                I have never seen someone devoted to conspiracy theories or the various fabricated stories of the right or left give up those positions, Leon. I don't really expect to see it happen how.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                16 responses
                                77 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                52 responses
                                267 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Mountain Man  
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                25 responses
                                109 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                195 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                83 responses
                                351 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Working...
                                X