Announcement

Collapse

Civics 101 Guidelines

Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!

Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less

Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I don't get to Ohio very often, but I'll keep it in mind! Meanwhile, if you're ever in/near Vermont...
    I'm getting low on maple surple....
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      I'm getting low on maple surple....
      Surple?
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
        Surple?
        From an old Roger Miller song....



        About a minute eight seconds....

        Roses are red and violets are purple
        sugar is sweet and so's maple surple

        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
          Surple?
          Somehow I read his post as syrup even though he spelled it so badly. I didn't even notice anything was wrong with the spelling until I saw your post.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
            Somehow I read his post as syrup even though he spelled it so badly. I didn't even notice anything was wrong with the spelling until I saw your post.
            Slipped one past ya, did eye?

            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Roses are red and violets are purple
            sugar is sweet and so's maple surple
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              Slipped one past ya, did eye?
              Either that or I'm getting used to you spelling so badly.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                Sort of. One of the two denies that their liberal views results in a liberal bias to the news they proffer. I'll take that denial with a grain of salt, since people are often unaware of how their filters affect their words.
                That's not an objection. I"m open to the possibility that NPR has a liberal bias. I am open to the possibility that NPR has a decidedly liberal bias I'm somehow unable to fathom unaided.

                I am not open to a suggestion that ...
                NPR themselves admit their liberal bias.

                ... is not directly contradicted by ...
                But that doesn't change what is going out over the air.

                Adrift is known for his careful analysis and sourcing, so I'm scoring this as an exception. In this case, he didn't even read his quote before posting it. And I didn't miss the fact he didn't bother trying to defend it, either.

                Thanks for the invocation, toasti. There are a couple possible takes on this. One is that he's now looking at things with a conservative bias, and therefore his comments should be taken with a grain of salt. Another is that he's been in both camps, and therefore just might possibly be able to more accurately pinpoint where NPR falls on the scale.
                He's entitled to his opinion. That opinion, however, is colored by his financial incentive and the venue in which it's posted. Adrift is similarly entitled to his opinion. He is not, however, entitled to mischaracterize Stern's opinion by omitting the financial incentive and timing coincident with the book's release. I didn't miss the fact that despite posting a reply (to a member with whom he's not seeking a conversation), that he didn't bother trying to defend that, either.

                Quite possibly I'm wrong, but if I am, it's in the direction of granting the benefit of the doubt.

                I see these remarks more as cultural snobbery than racist per se. "Mexican" is not a race, La Raza (a prominent voice among Mexican immigrants) IS unquestionably racist, and Mexico is after all a major source and/or funnel for illegal drugs into the country. That, of course, does not make his comments right.
                The distinction of "cultural snobbery" from "racist per se" reads like permission to grant you the same benefit of the doubt. Nor would I ever suggest that non-whites can't be racist, though your example is ambiguous at best.
                Many people incorrectly translate the name, “La Raza,” as “the race.” While it is true that one meaning of “raza” in Spanish is indeed “race,” in Spanish, as in English and any other language, words can and do have multiple meanings. As noted in several online dictionaries, “La Raza” means “the people” or “the community.”

                As an aside, I've communicated privately in chat rooms and on messenger with a number of TWebbers over the years. For the most part, those conversations were rewarding, and more than once gave me reason to think better of a person I'd been at odds with on the board. Crystal is a good example.

                But, in one case, I abruptly cut off communication with a member after she explained how her boyfriend had taught her to avoid saying she didn't like blacks by instead saying that she didn't like black culture. She was quite publicly annoyed. Frankly, I couldn't figure a way to express my disapproval that wouldn't be still more hurtful.

                How in the world is the belief that someone was really born in Kenya instead of Hawai'i racist? The spin is there, toasti.
                Sustained promotion of an unsubstantiated belief after direct and repeated contradiction by evidence impugns more benign motivations.

                Any individual example could be couched in euphemism or ascribed to separate motivations, but the sum is probative, even before we consider other well known examples. There comes a point where granting the benefit of the doubt crosses the line into complicity, and I can't go there.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                  That's not an objection. I"m open to the possibility that NPR has a liberal bias. I am open to the possibility that NPR has a decidedly liberal bias I'm somehow unable to fathom unaided.

                  I am not open to a suggestion that ...
                  NPR themselves admit their liberal bias.

                  ... is not directly contradicted by ...
                  But that doesn't change what is going out over the air.
                  IIRC even the ombudsman of your precious New York Times has criticized them for having a liberal bias but the editor steadfastly denies such a bias.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                    That's not an objection. I"m open to the possibility that NPR has a liberal bias. I am open to the possibility that NPR has a decidedly liberal bias I'm somehow unable to fathom unaided.

                    I am not open to a suggestion that ...
                    NPR themselves admit their liberal bias.

                    ... is not directly contradicted by ...
                    But that doesn't change what is going out over the air.

                    ...
                    Um, Taoist, that's NOT a contradiction.

                    Not sure that's even what Adrift said - didn't read like that to me - but recognizing an issue and correcting an issue are two different things.

                    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                    "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                    My Personal Blog

                    My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                    Quill Sword

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                      That's not an objection. I"m open to the possibility that NPR has a liberal bias. I am open to the possibility that NPR has a decidedly liberal bias I'm somehow unable to fathom unaided.
                      Taoist once tried to argue with me that MEDIA MATTERS was "centrist", even after I directly quoted them as identifying themselves as progressives. There's a reason why taoist doesn't interact with me anymore. the way he pretends obviously progressive institutions aren't progressive and that you're crazy to suggest otherwise is pretty embarrassing. Nobody in their right mind buys it so I don't even understand why he bothers to try. Masochism?
                      "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                      There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                        Um, Taoist, that's NOT a contradiction.
                        Admission, denial. If it's one, it's not the other.

                        And how many kittens do I have to rescue to get you to drop the capitals on my name.

                        Not sure that's even what Adrift said - didn't read like that to me -
                        It was c/p'd. Wouldn't make much sense to do anything else.

                        ... but recognizing an issue and correcting an issue are two different things.
                        /
                        I'm unsure what you think needs to be done. Conservatives and liberals alike who've been interviewed by NPR report they've been treated fairly. NPR doesn't do aggressive questions. They're not particularly political in any case. Much of the programming is storytelling, and car talk, and trivia challenges.

                        Larger markets do a lot of local programming. Smaller markets, too, as much as they can afford. Bigger budgets buy better programs. There's a local newscast and a creole newscast out of Miami. After that, the money pretty much runs out. They broadcast school board meetings, too. Miami has only about half a million folks, making it just big enough to pay for itself.

                        When people talk about federal funding for public broadcasting, they're talking about the cost to distribute programming to markets that can't afford a local newscast, rural electrification folks, boonies.

                        If Trump refers to African countries as "shitholes," it's, at minimum, unfortunate, but it's not a high crime or misdemeanor. Mueller is pushing hard with the Manafort trial date, but he's not going to be done anytime soon. Meanwhile, Trump's tweeting nuclear threats, and you're wondering if quoting the leader of the free world passes decorum tests on our wonderfully obscure little corner of the net.

                        Kafkaesque.

                        The tangential claim that negative coverage of Trump reflects a liberal bias flies in the face of the obvious: The National Review doesn't pan conservatives. He's not even ideological.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          IIRC even the ombudsman of your precious New York Times has criticized them for having a liberal bias but the editor steadfastly denies such a bias.
                          Hence the contradiction.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            And, given that Obama gave an almost identical speech at several tree lighting ceremonies, does that mean you are willing to give him the same suspension of judgment?
                            To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine that any Christian would mistakenly refer to his "Muslim faith" in an interview like Obama did.

                            But none of us can really know who is and isn't a Christian. We can only judge people by what they do.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              To be honest, it's hard for me to imagine that any Christian would mistakenly refer to his "Muslim faith" in an interview like Obama did.

                              But none of us can really know who is and isn't a Christian. We can only judge people by what they do.
                              MM, it is beneath you to pass on false stories. In the interview you cite, Obama was not making a reference to having a Muslim faith, he was noting McCain was NOT pushing forward the rumor that he had a Muslim faith. The various ways the right has edited his statements to make this claim can be found here: https://www.factcheck.org/2009/12/tr...ng-room-floor/

                              The text of the original interview can be found here: https://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslimfaith.asp
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                                Admission, denial. If it's one, it's not the other.

                                And how many kittens do I have to rescue to get you to drop the capitals on my name.
                                mossy and I hear you on that one

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by little_monkey, Yesterday, 04:19 PM
                                7 responses
                                52 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post rogue06
                                by rogue06
                                 
                                Started by whag, 03-26-2024, 04:38 PM
                                42 responses
                                234 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post whag
                                by whag
                                 
                                Started by rogue06, 03-26-2024, 11:45 AM
                                24 responses
                                104 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Ronson
                                by Ronson
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 09:21 AM
                                33 responses
                                190 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Roy
                                by Roy
                                 
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-26-2024, 08:34 AM
                                73 responses
                                315 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                                Working...
                                X