Should Trump Resign Over "Hellhole" Comment?

[carpedm9587]

muchly

As is the statement labeling Haiti a "hellhole."

Who made that statement?

I did, by way of comparison.

To the same degree? I don't understand why you have to do this. Haiti is quite clearly the poorest country in the western hemisphere. They share an island with the Dominican Republic, and a lot of the same history, yet Haiti has not flourished anywhere near its neighbor.

I have no problem with noting that Haiti is perhaps the poorest country in the world, CP. If it isn't the actual poorest, it's close. I have also noted they struggle with corruption in their government. Your equating Haiti with the Dominican Republic is not a good one. There are some significant reasons why the two countries are so different (http://content.time.com/time/world/a...953959,00.html). Part of it is geographic. Part of it is the fact that Haiti became an independent republic far earlier than the Dominican Republic, so did not benefit as much from the infusion of support from its parent nation. There are other factors as well.

My objection is labeling an entire nation a hellhole (or s---hole, or s---house) or jokes that suggest that the only beautiful parts of the country are behind gated resort doors. Neither statement is an accurate reflection of Haiti. Impoverished? Yes. Struggling? Absolutely. But the nation remains a mixture of beautify and scarred lands, and its people are similarly mixed.

[Mountain Man]

...every country has its ugly spots.

Some more than others, and some to a greater degree than others. But as long as you can afford to visit private, first-class resorts patrolled by armed security then you really don't need to concern yourself about that.

Just ask Conan O'Brien.

[carpedm9587]

Some more than others. But as long as you can afford to visit private resort, first-class resorts patrolled by armed security then you really don't need to concern yourself about that.

Just ask Conan O'Brien.

I'm finally coming to the realization that a significant percentage of your posts are simply trolling for a response. I'm going to have to remember to sort those out and leave them unresponded to. This is a good example. Of course... I just responded to it...

[Mountain Man]

I'm finally coming to the realization that a significant percentage of your posts are simply trolling for a response. I'm going to have to remember to sort those out and leave them unresponded to. This is a good example. Of course... I just responded to it...

It's OK if you can't keep up with a battle of wits. Nobody really expects you to.

[Cow Poke]

As is the statement labeling Haiti a "hellhole."

So, you go overboard because somebody else did?

I did, by way of comparison.

Ah, strawman.

I have no problem with noting that Haiti is perhaps the poorest country in the world, CP. If it isn't the actual poorest, it's close. I have also noted they struggle with corruption in their government.

I don't think you're going to find any source that disputes that.

Your equating Haiti with the Dominican Republic is not a good one. There are some significant reasons why the two countries are so different (http://content.time.com/time/world/a...953959,00.html). Part of it is geographic. Part of it is the fact that Haiti became an independent republic far earlier than the Dominican Republic, so did not benefit as much from the infusion of support from its parent nation. There are other factors as well.

They share the same island, they have a lot of history and factors in common - the fact that the DR made other choices is an important reason they are no longer comparable. It is, IMOHBAO, a very good compare/contrast example.

My objection is labeling an entire nation a hellhole (or s---hole, or s---house) or jokes that suggest that the only beautiful parts of the country are behind gated resort doors.

So, don't go overboard the other way.

Neither statement is an accurate reflection of Haiti.

But I'm talking to you, and about your own statement.

Impoverished? Yes. Struggling? Absolutely. But the nation remains a mixture of beautify and scarred lands, and its people are similarly mixed.

Which is what you should have said in the first place.

[Mountain Man]

My objection is labeling an entire nation a hellhole (or s---hole, or s---house) or jokes that suggest that the only beautiful parts of the country are behind gated resort doors.

Hmmm... yet you have no problem with an opportunistic limousine liberal declaring the entire country beautiful while sipping cocktails from a coconut from the safety of an exclusive, gated resort.

Double standard?

[Cow Poke]

I have no problem with noting that Haiti is perhaps the poorest country in the world, CP. If it isn't the actual poorest, it's close

Important clarification... What I actually said was.... (bolding mine in both quotes)

Haiti is quite clearly the poorest country in the western hemisphere.

I make no pretense that Haiti is even close to being the poorest country in the world.

[Adrift]

To both you and Sparko - I don't share your lack of concern for the use of language.

Where did I ever state that I lack concern for the use of language? I may have a higher regard for language than you do. At least I understand/acknowledge how it's commonly used.

[Cow Poke]

So, I've been wondering about all this "Haiti is a beautiful country" and "hellhole", and thinking about how that fit with my own personal experiences in Haiti.

I have to admit that 99% of my time in Haiti was in the "hellhole" parts - in the mountains, clinics, ghettos, orphanages.... then there's the "bad part" of the ghetto called "the shadows" (because it's in the shadow of the ghetto). We visited Club Med that one time, and it was obviously a very stark contrast.

Even going to visit the Citadel was an experience through "hellhole" regions of Haiti on a "taptap" (a VW microbus that contained 14 or so people, with another dozen riding on top in a wire rack )

But I realize my last personal visit was nearly 20 years ago, and I'm still only in contact with people (friends and missionaries) who only deal with the "hellhole" regions. So, I've been doing some checking, and found this....

Even putting a positive spin on the changes seems to be a challenge.

[carpedm9587]

Important clarification... What I actually said was.... (bolding mine in both quotes)

I make no pretense that Haiti is even close to being the poorest country in the world.

Ummm... we're starting to pick nits at this point. Haiti is poor. Globally, it is ranked 173 out of 189 countries (https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...-world?page=12). You said western hemisphere - I said world.

[Cow Poke]

Brings back memories!!!!

taptap5_400x400.JPG

[carpedm9587]

Where did I ever state that I lack concern for the use of language? I may have a higher regard for language than you do. At least I understand/acknowledge how it's commonly used.

Your post suggests that your are not concerned with the general reference to Haiti as a hellhole - you seem to be arguing that it is apt because it reflects how people commonly use language. I find in inapt - for the reasons I cited. I am challenging the status quo. I believe you (and those who defend such usage) are being more cavalier with the language than you should be, to the detriment of the people of countries like Haiti.

At this point - this discussion has wound on long enough, IMO. I've said what I think, and will leave the rest of you to close it up.

[carpedm9587]

Brings back memories!!!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]26174[/ATTACH]

It sure does...

[Cow Poke]

Ummm... we're starting to pick nits at this point. Haiti is poor. Globally, it is ranked 173 out of 189 countries (https://www.gfmag.com/global-data/ec...-world?page=12). You said western hemisphere - I said world.

But from whence we cometh... you had said...

Haiti IS a beautiful country.

Which I contend is, in my opinion, quite a stretch.

Have you ever been?

Many times.

[Cow Poke]

It sure does...

I remember us careening down those "switchback" turns on the mountain headed to and from the Citadel, and the bus would lean out as we made a turn, and you'd be looking over the edge of a cliff that seemed like thousands of feet down. I think the driver was purposely giving us a thrill so we'd get the whole impact.