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Thread: Is The Bible Literally True?

  1. #111
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformedApologist View Post
    You do realize some prophecies are conditional? or are you stupid and just being deceptive. You have already been caught lying saying its impossible to Jewish from the side of the mother in accordance with Leviticus 24:10. So you were called out on that. Btw when you going to answer Sparko's question? you completely evaded that.
    According to Matthew 1:11, Joseph was a descendant of King Jeconiah, who will not have a descendant “sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:30). Hence, Joseph’s genealogy disqualifies Jesus as the Messiah.

  2. #112
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    The passage you cited only says that they registered themselves by their father's houses, it doesn't say that lineage could never be traced through the mother's house. And we know for a fact that lineage can be traced through the mother in specific circumstances, because the book of Numbers specifically states:

    Scripture Verse: Numbers 27:1-11 ESV


    Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad the son of Hepher, son of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, from the clans of Manasseh the son of Joseph. The names of his daughters were: Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. 2 And they stood before Moses and before Eleazar the priest and before the chiefs and all the congregation, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying, 3 “Our father died in the wilderness. He was not among the company of those who gathered themselves together against the Lord in the company of Korah, but died for his own sin. And he had no sons. 4 Why should the name of our father be taken away from his clan because he had no son? Give to us a possession among our father's brothers.

    5 Moses brought their case before the Lord. 6 And the Lord said to Moses, 7 “The daughters of Zelophehad are right. You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father's brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 And you shall speak to the people of Israel, saying, ‘If a man dies and has no son, then you shall transfer his inheritance to his daughter. 9 And if he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 And if he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 11 And if his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to the nearest kinsman of his clan, and he shall possess it. And it shall be for the people of Israel a statute and rule, as the Lord commanded Moses.’”

    © Copyright Original Source

    Thanks for sharing such valuable information. How is Mary traced to David?

  3. #113
    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    According to Matthew 1:11, Joseph was a descendant of King Jeconiah, who was cursed to never have a descendant “sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:30). Hence, Joseph’s genealogy disqualifies Jesus as the Messiah.
    Prophecy of scripture is inspired of God. All scripture inspired of God is useful for teaching, for reproof, for training in righteousness.
    Matthew's genealogy may (perhaps) have been correct in the original writing - the copies that we have provide a demonstrably erroneous descendancy - but not in the way that you claim.
    Moreover - as you yourself have rightly pointed out - Jesus was not Joseph's biological descendant. So Joseph's descendancy from Jeconiah is wholly irrelevant anyway.
    Last edited by tabibito; 06-07-2019 at 04:50 AM.
    1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

  4. #114
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    According to Matthew 1:11, Joseph was a descendant of King Jeconiah, who will not have a descendant “sitting on the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah” (Jeremiah 22:30). Hence, Joseph’s genealogy disqualifies Jesus as the Messiah.
    Um you realize that in Islam, Jesus is the Messiah, right? And the Messiah has to be a descendant of David, so Islam believes that Jesus is the descendant of David. And Islam believes in the virgin birth, so Joseph is not Jesus' father in Islam either.

  5. #115
    Department Head Apologiaphoenix's Avatar
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    I affirm the virgin birth!

  6. #116
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    The Virgin Birth also answers the reverse of the curse. Jesus was not literally born of Jeconiah seed. Since Jesus was born of a women (Galatians 4:4; Isaiah 7:14), and without sin (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1st Peter 2:22; 1st John 3:5). The curse does not effect him.

  7. #117
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Prophecy of scripture is inspired of God. All scripture inspired of God is useful for teaching, for reproof, for training in righteousness.
    Matthew's genealogy may (perhaps) have been correct in the original writing - the copies that we have provide a demonstrably erroneous descendancy - but not in the way that you claim.
    Moreover - as you yourself have rightly pointed out - Jesus was not Joseph's biological descendant. So Joseph's descendancy from Jeconiah is wholly irrelevant anyway.
    However, Matthew in 1:16 traces Jesus to David namely through Joseph. But the reality is that Joseph was not the biological father of Jesus because Jesus was born miraculously without father; therefore, Jesus cannot be traced to David as claimed by Matthew 1:1.

    The above referred to verses are as follows;

    Matthew 1:1 New Living Translation (NLT)
    The Ancestors of Jesus the Messiah
    1 This is a record of the ancestors of Jesus the Messiah, a descendant of David and of Abraham:

    Matthew 1:16 New Living Translation (NLT)
    16 Jacob was the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary.
    Mary gave birth to Jesus, who is called the Messiah.


    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...23&version=NLT

  8. #118
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformedApologist View Post
    The Virgin Birth also answers the reverse of the curse. Jesus was not literally born of Jeconiah seed. Since Jesus was born of a women (Galatians 4:4; Isaiah 7:14), and without sin (2nd Corinthians 5:21; Hebrews 4:15; 1st Peter 2:22; 1st John 3:5). The curse does not effect him.
    Coniah was one of the ancestors of Jesus according to Matthew 1:11. And God said in Jer. 22:30 that this Coniah will not sit on the throne of David. So once Jesus sits on the throne of David, the words of God in Jer. 22:30 will be conflicted.

    Matthew 1:11 New King James Version (NKJV)
    11 Josiah begot [a]Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon.

    Footnotes:
    Matthew 1:11 Or Coniah or Jehoiachin

    Jeremiah 22:30 New King James Version (NKJV)
    30 Thus says the Lord:
    ‘Write this man down as childless,
    A man who shall not prosper in his days;
    For none of his descendants shall prosper,
    Sitting on the throne of David,
    And ruling anymore in Judah.’ ”

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...0&version=NKJV

  9. #119
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Funny how you keep ignoring my posts Hakeem.


    In Islam, Jesus is the Messiah. And the Messiah has to be a descendant of David, so Islam believes that Jesus is the descendant of David. And Islam believes in the virgin birth, so Joseph is not Jesus' father in Islam either.

  10. #120
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    Your own Quran connects Jesus to David and Mary:

    Cursed were those who disbelieved among the Children of Israel by the tongue of David and of Jesus, the son of Mary. That was because they disobeyed and [habitually] transgressed.-Surah 5:78

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