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Is The Bible Literally True?

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  • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    You did not address how Mary in Luke could be from David through Nathan (not Solomon) as per Luke 3:31 while Old Testament verses I quoted show that Solomon was chosen to be the selected son for the Davidic line.

    The bigger contradiction is that Jesus could not be traced through Joseph as claimed by Matthew 1:16 because Jesus had no biological father and hence Jesus could not be his father.
    Matthew's record of Jesus' genealogy is incorrect - that has no effect on Luke's record.
    Joseph was Jesus' adoptive father - which makes Jesus legally his offspring. Luke claims that Joseph was descended from David - which means his legal offspring is legally deemed to be a descendant of David.
    Mary's genealogy is not declared in the Bible. Evidence that Jesus is the Messiah is presented in a number of ways - that evidence is not solely based on his parentage.
    Jesus is attested to be the Messiah - and the Messiah is born of the house of David: therefore Mary was of the house of David - if only because she was Joseph's wife ... She meets the minimum standard whether or not she was a genetic descendant of David.
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

    Comment


    • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Matthew's record of Jesus' genealogy is incorrect - that has no effect on Luke's record.
      Joseph was Jesus' adoptive father - which makes Jesus legally his offspring. Luke claims that Joseph was descended from David - which means his legal offspring is legally deemed to be a descendant of David.
      Mary's genealogy is not declared in the Bible. Evidence that Jesus is the Messiah is presented in a number of ways - that evidence is not solely based on his parentage.
      Jesus is attested to be the Messiah - and the Messiah is born of the house of David: therefore Mary was of the house of David - if only because she was Joseph's wife ... She meets the minimum standard whether or not she was a genetic descendant of David.
      Saying "Joseph was Jesus' adoptive father - which makes Jesus legally his offspring" is not correct because, among other reasons, Jesus must be from David "according to the flesh" as per Romans 1:3.

      In case you have time to address my earlier comment reproduced below;

      "You did not address how Mary in Luke could be from David through Nathan (not Solomon) as per Luke 3:31 while Old Testament verses I quoted show that Solomon was chosen to be the selected son for the Davidic line."

      "However, Luke 3:31 mentions Nathan (not Solomon) as a descendant of David and not through Solomon. Solomon (not Nathan) was the selected son for the Davidic line as per I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18, 1 Chronicles 29:1, 1 Chronicles 28:5 and 1 Chronicles. 29:24."

      1 Chronicles 22:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
      10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’


      2 Chronicles 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
      18 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, ‘You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.’

      1 Chronicles 29:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
      Offerings for Building the Temple
      29 Furthermore King David said to all the assembly: “My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is young and inexperienced; and the work is great, because the [a]temple is not for man but for the Lord God.

      1 Chronicles 28:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
      5 And of all my sons (for the Lord has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the Lord over Israel.

      1 Chronicles 29:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
      24 All the leaders and the mighty men, and also all the sons of King David, submitted[a] themselves to King Solomon.
      Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-09-2019, 02:11 PM.

      Comment


      • Another contradiction is between Eccl. 1:4 and Matthew 24:35. Eccl. 1:4 says "the earth abides forever"; however, Matthew 24:35 says "heaven and earth shall pass away"

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
          Saying "Joseph was Jesus' adoptive father - which makes Jesus legally his offspring" is not correct because, among other reasons, Jesus must be from David "according to the flesh" as per Romans 1:3.

          In case you have time to address my earlier comment reproduced below;

          "You did not address how Mary in Luke could be from David through Nathan (not Solomon) as per Luke 3:31 while Old Testament verses I quoted show that Solomon was chosen to be the selected son for the Davidic line."

          "However, Luke 3:31 mentions Nathan (not Solomon) as a descendant of David and not through Solomon. Solomon (not Nathan) was the selected son for the Davidic line as per I Chronicles 22:10, II Chronicles 7:18, 1 Chronicles 29:1, 1 Chronicles 28:5 and 1 Chronicles. 29:24."

          1 Chronicles 22:10 New King James Version (NKJV)
          10 He shall build a house for My name, and he shall be My son, and I will be his Father; and I will establish the throne of his kingdom over Israel forever.’


          2 Chronicles 7:18 New King James Version (NKJV)
          18 then I will establish the throne of your kingdom, as I covenanted with David your father, saying, ‘You shall not fail to have a man as ruler in Israel.’

          1 Chronicles 29:1 New King James Version (NKJV)
          Offerings for Building the Temple
          29 Furthermore King David said to all the assembly: “My son Solomon, whom alone God has chosen, is young and inexperienced; and the work is great, because the [a]temple is not for man but for the Lord God.

          1 Chronicles 28:5 New King James Version (NKJV)
          5 And of all my sons (for the Lord has given me many sons) He has chosen my son Solomon to sit on the throne of the kingdom of the Lord over Israel.

          1 Chronicles 29:24 New King James Version (NKJV)
          24 All the leaders and the mighty men, and also all the sons of King David, submitted[a] themselves to King Solomon.
          In ordinary circumstances, the crown goes to the nearest kin of the monarch's line - there is no demand even in ordinary circumstances for the line to extend directly through all previous kings. If for one reason or another a nearer relative is deemed ineligible, a more remote relative is chosen. For the kings of Israel, that is even more so - David replaced Saul as king, but he was not a son of Saul. David's eldest son was not chosen as his successor, Solomon was. After Saul, the king was chosen through the line of David ... but there is nothing to require that he be the next in line. Any of David's descendants could be appointed to the throne. That decision was based on the person who was most suitable for the position. [and just in case you try the stunt: Solomon was told that his descendants would hold the throne, provided that he behaved himself. He didn't - he annulled the promise.]

          Even if Mary was not born of the House of David, her marriage to Joseph would have made her of the house of David. However, while there is no documentation to show that she herself was born into the house of David, the fact that Jesus was the messiah shows incontrovertibly that she was of the house of David. That is more solid than any other documentation that might be provided.
          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
          .
          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
          Scripture before Tradition:
          but that won't prevent others from
          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
          of the right to call yourself Christian.

          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

          Comment


          • The context of Ecclesiastes 1:4 is is read in the context of Zephaniah 1:2-3; Revelation 21:1. Earth in Hebrew does not mean planet but also 'erets eh'-rets from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):--X common,
            country, earth, field, ground, In addition, 2nd Peter 3:10. You assume to pass away means full destruction when it can mean purify, otherwise as the rest of the epistle says there would be no righteous person. The same is similar to the flood was all the Earth destroyed in the flood? no not in the context of the planet but the land etc. Cause Noah and his family were still alive.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ReformedApologist View Post
              The context of Ecclesiastes 1:4 is is read in the context of Zephaniah 1:2-3; Revelation 21:1. Earth in Hebrew does not mean planet but also 'erets eh'-rets from an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land):--X common,
              country, earth, field, ground, In addition, 2nd Peter 3:10. You assume to pass away means full destruction when it can mean purify, otherwise as the rest of the epistle says there would be no righteous person. The same is similar to the flood was all the Earth destroyed in the flood? no not in the context of the planet but the land etc. Cause Noah and his family were still alive.
              Even if the word "land" is employed, still the contradiction remains unsolved because Matthew 24:35 says "heaven and earth shall pass away" including land.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                Another contradiction is between Eccl. 1:4 and Matthew 24:35. Eccl. 1:4 says "the earth abides forever"; however, Matthew 24:35 says "heaven and earth shall pass away"
                Dumbass, do you know what proverbial literature is?

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jpholding View Post
                  Dumbass, do you know what proverbial literature is?
                  Worse, he doesn't care. At best, all Hakeem can manage here is cast doubt on Christianity. Does he have a positive case for Islam? Well, no.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                    God assessed necessities ...
                    The necessity was for Jesus of Nazareth to be a man like any other, partaking fully of human identity, indistinguishable from any of his brothers. He did not regard equality with God as booty, but emptied himself to take on the form of a servant ... the list continues. It would seem that becoming human made development from a baby and child at least desirable. Not to mention that prophecy did say he would be born.
                    The very first messianic prophecy in Genesis 3 also mentions that He will be the seed/offspring of the woman. If he's of the "seed" of the woman it would seem like his genetic material will be from her (i.e Mary).

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                      You did not address how Mary in Luke could be from David through Nathan (not Solomon) as per Luke 3:31 while Old Testament verses I quoted show that Solomon was chosen to be the selected son for the Davidic line.
                      I did do that. His biological lineage was through Nathan via Mary, and through adoption by Joseph He was also incorporated into the royal heir line.

                      Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                      The bigger contradiction is that Jesus could not be traced through Joseph as claimed by Matthew 1:16 because Jesus had no biological father and hence Jesus could not be his father.
                      Joseph*

                      The contradiction you're claiming here doesn't exist, even on a surface level reading. Matthew 1:16 doesn't say what you claim it says. The genealogy in Matthew isn't describing biological descent, and Matthew never claims it is either. Matthew is claiming that it is Joseph's biological genealogy and that Jesus was incorporated into that genealogy when He was adopted by Joseph.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Worse, he doesn't care. At best, all Hakeem can manage here is cast doubt on Christianity. Does he have a positive case for Islam? Well, no.
                        He seems to ignore the fact that Islam actually agrees with Christianity on many of his complaints about Christianity. Like the fact that Jesus is the Messiah and that the Messiah has to come from the line of David. Or the fact that Allah killed infants in the Quran too (from the other thread where he complains that God ordered the Israelites to kill infants)

                        He isn't worth interacting with. His objections are usually easy to answer, but he just ignores any answer.

                        I think he might be insane.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jpholding View Post
                          Dumbass, do you know what proverbial literature is?
                          Eccl 1:4 saying "the earth abides forever" has nothing to do with proverbial literature.
                          Last edited by Same Hakeem; 06-15-2019, 09:31 AM.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            Worse, he doesn't care. At best, all Hakeem can manage here is cast doubt on Christianity. Does he have a positive case for Islam? Well, no.
                            Yeah he's a first class representative for Islam

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                              Eccl 1:4 saying "the earth abides forever" has nothing to do with proverbial literature.


                              The whole book of Ecclesiastes is an example of proverbial literature.

                              Comment


                              • Ecclesiastes 1:4 is called wisdom literature for a reason cause it uses poetry. You are an idiot.

                                Comment

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