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Thread: Is The Bible Literally True?

  1. #101
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    I need to clarify something. Lineage is traced only through a person’s father, never the mother as follows;

    "And on the first day of the second month, they assembled the whole congregation together, who registered themselves by families, by their fathers' houses, according to the number of names from twenty years old and upward, head by head."

    (Numbers 1:18)
    Where in that text does it state that lineage is never traced through a person's mother?

  2. #102
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    Where in that text does it state that lineage is never traced through a person's mother?
    "by their fathers' houses"

  3. #103
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    The Torah does not specifically state anywhere that matrilineal descent should be used; however, there are several passages in the Torah where it is understood that the child of a Jewish woman and a non-Jewish man is a Jew, and several other passages where it is understood that the child of a non-Jewish woman and a Jewish man is not a Jew. So your incorrect Hakeem.

    http://www.jewfaq.org/whoisjew.htm

    In fact there is a case where a man was an Israelite having been from a Jewish women

    Leviticus 24:10 And the son of an Israelitish woman, whose father was an Egyptian, went out among the children of Israel: and this son of the Israelitish woman and a man of Israel strove together in the camp;”

  4. Amen Chrawnus, Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  5. #104
    tWebber
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    In this regard, according to the prophecy in Jeremiah 22:30, no descendant of Coniah/Jeconiah/Jehoiachin will sit upon the throne of David and ruling in Judah. Jesus was a descendant of Coniah/Jeconiah/Jehoiachin according to Matthew 1:11 and will sit upon the throne of David according to Luke 1:32. When Jesus sits upon the throne of David, this prophecy in Jeremiah 22:30 will be proven to be wrong.

    The above referred verses are as follows;

    "Thus says the Lord:
    ‘Write this man down as childless,
    A man who shall not prosper in his days;
    For none of his descendants shall prosper,
    Sitting on the throne of David,
    And ruling anymore in Judah.’ ” (Jeremiah 22:30)

    "Josiah begot [a]Jeconiah and his brothers about the time they were carried away to Babylon. (Matthew 1:11)

    Footnotes:
    Matthew 1:11 Or Coniah or Jehoiachin"

    “He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David " (Luke 1:32).

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...2&version=NKJV

    In NLT, the footnote of Jeremiah 22:24 states “Hebrew Coniah, a variant spelling of Jehoiachin; also in 22:28.”
    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...24&version=NLT

  6. #105
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    Again Jeremiah 22:30 does not refute the fact Jesus was not a Jew. As stated in previous post Jesus was adopted by Joseph legally not biologically so the curse does not effect him at all. In fact Haggai 2:23 speaks of Zerubbabel who was his grandson and the rabbis speak of his repentance

    Sanhedrin 37b-38a

    R. Johanan said: "Exile atones for everything, for it is written, Thus saith the Lord, write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days, for no man of his seed shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. Whereas after he [the king] was exiled, it is written, And the sons of Jechoniah, -- the same is Assir -- Shealtiel his son etc.(1) [He was called] Assir, because his mother conceived him in prison. Shealtiel, because God did not plant him in the way that others are planted. We know by tradition that a woman cannot conceive in a standing position. [yet she] did conceive standing. Another interpretation: Shealtiel, because God obtained [of the Heavenly court] absolution from His oath."(2)

  7. Amen Chrawnus amen'd this post.
  8. #106
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReformedApologist View Post
    Again Jeremiah 22:30 does not refute the fact Jesus was not a Jew. As stated in previous post Jesus was adopted by Joseph legally not biologically so the curse does not effect him at all. In fact Haggai 2:23 speaks of Zerubbabel who was his grandson and the rabbis speak of his repentance

    Sanhedrin 37b-38a

    R. Johanan said: "Exile atones for everything, for it is written, Thus saith the Lord, write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days, for no man of his seed shall prosper sitting upon the throne of David and ruling any more in Judah. Whereas after he [the king] was exiled, it is written, And the sons of Jechoniah, -- the same is Assir -- Shealtiel his son etc.(1) [He was called] Assir, because his mother conceived him in prison. Shealtiel, because God did not plant him in the way that others are planted. We know by tradition that a woman cannot conceive in a standing position. [yet she] did conceive standing. Another interpretation: Shealtiel, because God obtained [of the Heavenly court] absolution from His oath."(2)

    Thanks. But you missed my point here. According to Jer. 22:30, none of sons of Coniah sons will sit on the throne of David. But Jesus was from Coniah according Matthew 1:11.

  9. #107
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    "by their fathers' houses"
    "by their fathers' houses" by itself does not imply lineage can never be traced through the mother.

  10. #108
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrawnus View Post
    "by their fathers' houses" by itself does not imply lineage can never be traced through the mother.
    Really? So by fathers' houses can mean by mothers' houses?

  11. #109
    tWebber Chrawnus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Really? So by fathers' houses can mean by mothers' houses?
    The passage you cited only says that they registered themselves by their father's houses, it doesn't say that lineage could never be traced through the mother's house. And we know for a fact that lineage can be traced through the mother in specific circumstances, because the book of Numbers specifically states:

    Scripture Verse: Numbers 27:1-11 ESV


    Then drew near the daughters of Zelophehad the son of Hepher, son of Gilead, son of Machir, son of Manasseh, from the clans of Manasseh the son of Joseph. The names of his daughters were: Mahlah, Noah, Hoglah, Milcah, and Tirzah. 2 And they stood before Moses and before Eleazar the priest and before the chiefs and all the congregation, at the entrance of the tent of meeting, saying, 3 “Our father died in the wilderness. He was not among the company of those who gathered themselves together against the Lord in the company of Korah, but died for his own sin. And he had no sons. 4 Why should the name of our father be taken away from his clan because he had no son? Give to us a possession among our father's brothers.

    5 Moses brought their case before the Lord. 6 And the Lord said to Moses, 7 “The daughters of Zelophehad are right. You shall give them possession of an inheritance among their father's brothers and transfer the inheritance of their father to them. 8 And you shall speak to the people of Israel, saying, ‘If a man dies and has no son, then you shall transfer his inheritance to his daughter. 9 And if he has no daughter, then you shall give his inheritance to his brothers. 10 And if he has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to his father's brothers. 11 And if his father has no brothers, then you shall give his inheritance to the nearest kinsman of his clan, and he shall possess it. And it shall be for the people of Israel a statute and rule, as the Lord commanded Moses.’”

    © Copyright Original Source


  12. Amen Cow Poke, ReformedApologist amen'd this post.
  13. #110
    tWebber ReformedApologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Same Hakeem View Post
    Thanks. But you missed my point here. According to Jer. 22:30, none of sons of Coniah sons will sit on the throne of David. But Jesus was from Coniah according Matthew 1:11.
    You do realize some prophecies are conditional? or are you stupid and just being deceptive. You have already been caught lying saying its impossible to Jewish from the side of the mother in accordance with Leviticus 24:10. So you were called out on that. Btw when you going to answer Sparko's question? you completely evaded that.

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