Is The Bible Literally True?

[JimL]

Except the 'unfair' part is patently untrue. There's nothing unfair or unjust in exercising your rights - at all. Period. God is not acting outside the limits of His rights because there are none. And you really cannot make a case for 'arbitrary' here - nor would it matter if you could. His ball - He can take it back any time He pleases and He has done you no wrong when He does so.

Okay, you just want to define justice in your own personal terms I guess. Can't argue with that!

[Christianbookworm]

I hope that feral cat isn't rabid. Seems to have a drooling problem.

[Teallaura]

Eh, there's a good reason there are so many heresies concerning the Trinity and Incarnation. It's hard for us to understand, because we have a one person equals one being
But with God, one being is three persons. I might say one Mind with three centers of consciousness, but I don't know if that is right. I do know that trithiesm is not the same as the Trinity, no matter how much a certain entertainment industry thinks the word just means three seperate people and beings
And the Son and the Holy Spirit are not secret identities of God the Father.

Yep - which is why I try not to think about angels dancing on pinheads and other things I can't possibly understand.

[Teallaura]

Okay, you just want to define justice in your own personal terms I guess. Can't argue with that!

No, I'm using a rational definition of justice - and you don't seem to be using any definition other than 'doesn't seem right to me'.

I gave it to you on a silver platter - all you have to do is show a case where a person acting within their rights is acting unjustly. That's all it takes to defeat my argument - the problem being of course that there is no such case because there is nothing unjust about exercising one's rights.

[JimL]

No, I'm using a rational definition of justice - and you don't seem to be using any definition other than 'doesn't seem right to me'.

I gave it to you on a silver platter - all you have to do is show a case where a person acting within their rights is acting unjustly. That's all it takes to defeat my argument - the problem being of course that there is no such case because there is nothing unjust about exercising one's rights.

Tea, I already explained it to you. Justice by definition has nothing to do with ones right to do whatever he chooses, it has to do with fairness. If a judge treats one person more severely than another even though they are guilty of the same crime, then the judge is acting unjustly. The same goes for a God, otherwise it isn't justice that you are talking about.

[Christianbookworm]

No, I'm using a rational definition of justice - and you don't seem to be using any definition other than 'doesn't seem right to me'.

I gave it to you on a silver platter - all you have to do is show a case where a person acting within their rights is acting unjustly. That's all it takes to defeat my argument - the problem being of course that there is no such case because there is nothing unjust about exercising one's rights.

Teal, I don't think you want that cat, it's feral!

[Teallaura]

Tea, I already explained it to you. Justice by definition has nothing to do with ones right to do whatever he chooses, it has to do with fairness. If a judge treats one person more severely than another even though they are guilty of the same crime, then the judge is acting unjustly. The same goes for a God, otherwise it isn't justice that you are talking about.

What you haven't shown is how it is unfair to exercise your right to do something.

You are mistaking earthy death for final death - everyone (excepting Elijah) dies - that is not the punitive death that Scripture talks about. That is the 'death' that occurs after the Judgment. Death in the earthly sense is a foreshadow of what is to come. There is nothing unfair about God taking the life He owns - nor is anything unjust about it. We are all tainted by sin, so even if earthly death were the only one, it still wouldn't be unjust.

[Teallaura]

Teal, I don't think you want that cat, it's feral!

Someone should.

[Christianbookworm]

Someone should.

Well, wild animals don't make good pets.

[Teallaura]

Well, wild animals don't make good pets.

But I don't think we should give up on friends.

[Christianbookworm]

But I don't think we should give up on friends.

I know.

Mind explaining what the metaphorical 2x4 was?

[Teallaura]

I know.

Mind explaining what the metaphorical 2x4 was?

For me? I let myself finally fall in love - with a guy that didn't love me. I was devastated - and came closer to suicide than I'd ever been before. The guy was supposed to call me one night - we were supposedly still friends - and he didn't. I went to bed and cried - and somewhere in the middle of it, I started cussing out a God I did not believe existed. Blaming Him for something that was my own fault. Anyway, the phone rang, much too late to be the guy (I knew him pretty well) but, it was him. Now, no one else would ever see that as a miracle - but I knew the guy and I knew full well he wouldn't call that late. It wasn't much of a conversation - I was still pretty mad at the guy - but I went back to bed afterwards a LOT more contrite to talk to God properly.

Three weeks and one more miracle later, I rededicated my life to Christ and haven't looked back since.

[Sparko]

Okay, - no.

There is nothing inherently arbitrary about God's proprietary rights - actually, I can't see any argument for arbitrary at all.

There is nothing unjust about exercising a right, whether God or Man.

God literally cannot murder - for murder to take place He would have to be taking something the victim has proprietary right to - which is impossible since that right is God's. Incidentally, you are now arguing that the natural universe is inherently unjust.

Since God cannot murder (in my view because He doesn't violate His nature and do irrational things like making square circles) there is literally no way that He is in any violation of His own standard. If I own the ball and you steal it, you are a thief. If you own the ball the best you can do is pretend to steal from yourself - you literally cannot be a thief by taking your own property. God cannot murder by taking the life He owns.

Nitpick: God's nature is such that He doesn't violate His own standards - which is true in the examples cited.

Also God doesn't destroy someone's everlasting soul. Even if they are evil. Life on Earth is just a temporary thing.

[JimL]

What you haven't shown is how it is unfair to exercise your right to do something.

You are mistaking earthy death for final death - everyone (excepting Elijah) dies - that is not the punitive death that Scripture talks about. That is the 'death' that occurs after the Judgment. Death in the earthly sense is a foreshadow of what is to come. There is nothing unfair about God taking the life He owns - nor is anything unjust about it. We are all tainted by sin, so even if earthly death were the only one, it still wouldn't be unjust.

Again, you're redifining justice. It's about fairness, not about having the power to do as one pleases. You can argue that Justice doesn't apply to god if you want, but then you can't at the same time define him as being just. What you're arguing is that god has the right to be unfair, that he has the right to be unjust, which of course would be true if he were an unjust god, but having the right to be unjust, doesn't make his actions just.

[JimL]

Also God doesn't destroy someone's everlasting soul. Even if they are evil. Life on Earth is just a temporary thing.

You mean we will all live on eternally, even us non-believers?