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Is The Bible Literally True?

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  • #16
    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
    Literal reading of the text versus a literal misreading of the text.

    Romans 16:25-26, ". . . Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: . . ."

    Fact, what is past tense ". . . made manifest . . ." and ". . . made known . . ." was "by the scriptures of the prophets" and was explicitly "according to the commandment of the everlasting God" into "all nations." Can you prove this is not the case?
    Colossians 1:23 - της ελπιδος του ευαγγελιου ου ηκουσατε του κηρυχθεντος εν παση τη κτισει τη υπο τον ουρανον ... the hope of the gospel that you (pl) heard being proclaimed in all creation under heaven.

    Col 1:23 states that the Colossians heard the gospel being proclaimed - in all creation.

    But as Rogue notes (and as I have noted on a number of occasions) the pas, pasa, pan group (all) and holos (whole) are as likely to be sweeping generalisations as they are to be literally "all" or "the whole" without exception: quite often "all" could be interpreted as "too many," without damage to the intent.
    Nice list BTW, Rogue, much more extensive than my own has been. Though you might want to add the one about all the Sanhedrin voting to have Jesus put to death (Luke's account) - it isn't til somewhat later that he lists an exception (Joseph of Arimathea).
    1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
    .
    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
    Scripture before Tradition:
    but that won't prevent others from
    taking it upon themselves to deprive you
    of the right to call yourself Christian.

    ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

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    • #17
      Originally posted by tabibito View Post
      Colossians 1:23 - της ελπιδος του ευαγγελιου ου ηκουσατε του κηρυχθεντος εν παση τη κτισει τη υπο τον ουρανον ... the hope of the gospel that you (pl) heard being proclaimed in all creation under heaven.

      Col 1:23 states that the Colossians heard the gospel being proclaimed - in all creation.

      But as Rogue notes (and as I have noted on a number of occasions) the pas, pasa, pan group (all) and holos (whole) are as likely to be sweeping generalisations as they are to be literally "all" or "the whole" without exception: quite often "all" could be interpreted as "too many," without damage to the intent.
      Nice list BTW, Rogue, much more extensive than my own has been. Though you might want to add the one about all the Sanhedrin voting to have Jesus put to death (Luke's account) - it isn't til somewhat later that he lists an exception (Joseph of Arimathea).
      I already addressed this text.
      Originally posted by 37818 View Post
      Colossians 1:6, . . 23, ". . . Which is come unto you, as [it is] in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as [it doth] also in you, since the day ye heard [of it], and knew the grace of God in truth: . . . _ . . . If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature [. . . παση τη κτισει . . .] which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; . . ." Echoing obediance to the command in Mark 16:15, ". . . παση τη κτισει . . . ."
      The Apostle Paul qualified his doing this, saying, ". . . whereof I Paul am made a minister; . . ."
      . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

      . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

      Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I take the bible as literally true in the sense that the authors were accurately reporting events as they actually happened, as far as they understood them. That doesn't mean that everything they reported on was literal. They reported Jesus speaking figuratively, for example. Or they told stories of visions. Or they reported what the LORD said, but the LORD could be using figurative language too.

        The Bible also contains books of poetry and songs and proverbs which are not literal.
        All the Bible is to be taken literally - and to do that properly, involves recognising that the texts belong to different literary genres, so that not everything can be taken as historical fact. The Lord of the Rings is all to be “taken literally”, but only a lunatic would take any of it as historical fact. So with much of the Bible. A lot of it uses mythological language, or is myth. OTOH, myth must not be confused with facts like the Resurrection - the Resurrection is “too real” to be mere history; it is more real than history, not less, like the invented tales of men.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I do wonder why why Irenaeus (mid 2nd century, so not particularly far removed) was so dogmatic about this.
          I'm not sure what your question is. He was insistent that Christian teaching had spread throughout the whole world. What we don't know is what Irenaeus precisely meant by "the whole world" (or even the Greek words used, since almost all we have of AH is a rather barbaric Latin translation). However, it seems fairly clear from context that he meant the known world.
          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
          sigpic
          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by tabibito View Post
            Colossians 1:23 - της ελπιδος του ευαγγελιου ου ηκουσατε του κηρυχθεντος εν παση τη κτισει τη υπο τον ουρανον ... the hope of the gospel that you (pl) heard being proclaimed in all creation under heaven.

            Col 1:23 states that the Colossians heard the gospel being proclaimed - in all creation.

            But as Rogue notes (and as I have noted on a number of occasions) the pas, pasa, pan group (all) and holos (whole) are as likely to be sweeping generalisations as they are to be literally "all" or "the whole" without exception: quite often "all" could be interpreted as "too many," without damage to the intent.
            Nice list BTW, Rogue, much more extensive than my own has been. Though you might want to add the one about all the Sanhedrin voting to have Jesus put to death (Luke's account) - it isn't til somewhat later that he lists an exception (Joseph of Arimathea).
            Another use of “all”: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...4&version=NASB

            How is that use of “all” to be understood ?
            Or the “all/every” in 2 Tim. 3.16: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...3&version=NASB ?

            Comment


            • #21
              The answer to "Is the Bible Literally True" is yes and no dependent on which parts of Bible you read. For instance, Job said in Job 42:5 "my eyes have seen you" where as 1 Timothy 6:16 says "no one has seen God nor can see God"

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                The answer to "Is the Bible Literally True" is yes and no dependent on which parts of Bible you read. For instance, Job said in Job 42:5 "my eyes have seen you" where as 1 Timothy 6:16 says "no one has seen God nor can see God"
                I guess you're just going to ignore my reply over at the "Innerancy"-thread and act like no one ever answered this silly objection of yours.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Hakeem is really, really good at ignoring contrary explanations - which is why he continually trots out the same, easily-answered objections. A pity he doesn't look at the Quran with the same hyper-critical eye.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    As a general rule, I don't talk to people who are obviously using Google Translate.
                    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                      As a general rule, I don't talk to people who are obviously using Google Translate.
                      I could be wrong, but I don't think he's using Google Translate (or any other online translating service). His English is poor, but it doesn't seem machine-translated to me.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                        I could be wrong, but I don't think he's using Google Translate (or any other online translating service). His English is poor, but it doesn't seem machine-translated to me.
                        It's not just that; it's his continual inability to even respond to anything anybody types. Of course I've seen native English speakers be the same way.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I always weigh evidence.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Same Hakeem View Post
                            I always weigh evidence.
                            It's too bad you're using rigged scales and deceptive weights. Especially since the only one you're deceiving is yourself.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              And the issue is determining what that is. One Catholic friend of mine just blogged on how he takes John 6:54 literally and that it's a salvation issue.
                              I take that literally, but I don't take it that he refers to his own biological flesh and blood. Just that the flesh and blood are his - with "his" being in the same sense as "his" as in "his garments:" a simple matter of ownership.
                              1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                              .
                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                              Scripture before Tradition:
                              but that won't prevent others from
                              taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                              of the right to call yourself Christian.

                              ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Chrawnus View Post
                                It's too bad you're using rigged scales and deceptive weights. Especially since the only one you're deceiving is yourself.
                                Such ham-fisted attempts as this do work on occasion, since there are plenty of woefully under-educated Christians out there.
                                Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                                Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                                sigpic
                                I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                                Comment

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