Trump's Fake News concerning London US Embassy

[Leonhard]

London has a Muslim mayor who is quietly attempting to implement Sharia law throughout the city ... how about actually attempting to refute the facts, if you can

I'm not sure there are any facts here at all, except that he had called moderate muslim groups "Uncle Toms" and was made to apologize for it. So if you want any of us to refute the facts, you need to state what they are.

The article in no way describes the establishing of sharia law in the UK, which is a thing that simple isn't happening outside of whatever informal courts might exist. Orthodox Jews have courts like that as well, but they're not binding outside of those groups. Courts like that exist in New York for the Orthodox Jewish communities, and I presume there's muslims groups having a session to settle cases internally.

The Catholic Church has its own type of court which is used to evaluate divorce cases, or blaspheme charges, or appeals of excommunications etc...

[Leonhard]

So liberals like to claim, but there is ample evidence that they are very real. (links provided)

If defined as areas where police, fire services and ambulances won't go to and where a state of lawlessness exists. Then such areas simple don't exist. Period. Not in France, not in Britain, not in Sweden.

These articles have to further clarify what is meant by a "no-go zone" to be areas where police have been attacked by gangs on a systematically higher level. Rocks thrown at ambulances etc... and where there's predominantly an immigrant population of mainly muslims.

The zones describes are basically just bad neighborhoods, of which the US has plenty of. That's the kernel of truth to the story. And I'll definitely grant some animosity between the ethnic population and the rest of the country. However the idea that the sharia courts run by imams there trump any rule of law, that police can't patrol the places, that rescue workers or ambulances can't get there, is very much a myth.

Its a myth that's popular though, and even Fox News have had to openly apologise for claiming that the entire city of Birmingham was a no-go zone. Mind you that was Fox News terrorism expert claiming this. Which came as quite a shock to UK Prime Minister Cameron who lived there.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-30773297

https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...mments/384656/

https://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/nogozones.asp

[Mountain Man]

If defined as areas where police, fire services and ambulances won't go to and where a state of lawlessness exists. Then such areas simple don't exist. Period. Not in France, not in Britain, not in Sweden.

There is ample evidence that they do exist.

Source: The Local

(October 2016) “Of course there are no-go zones in France where the police cannot intervene and do their jobs in safety,” Denis Jacob from the union Alternative police-CFDT told The Local. “And it’s the same for fire fighters or pretty much any representative of the state.

“The police can’t apply the law in these areas, they are attacked. If the police can’t do their work it’s because there are criminals and delinquents who don’t respect the law.”

“It’s not just a problem with this government it’s a problem with all French governments over the last 20 years. Governments will never admit there are no-go zones because it’s a sign of a failed state."

https://www.thelocal.fr/20161010/are...police-say-yes

© Copyright Original Source

Source: National Review

(March 2017) When the Islamic presence in a Western community reaches a critical mass, Islam’s hostility to Western mores and demands for sharia governance result in non-Muslim flight. Marriages between Muslims resident in the Western community and Muslims overseas tend to result in childbirth rates and household growth that dwarfs that of the indigenous population. Arranged, intra-familial, and polygamous marriages, endorsed by Islamic mores, drastically alter the fabric of communities in short order. Birmingham, in particular, has been ground zero of “Operation Trojan Horse,” a sharia-supremacist scheme to Islamize the public schools.

Kern repeats an account of life in “inner-city Birmingham” by the wife of a British clergyman, first published by Standpoint in 2011. She explained how the neighborhood in which she’d lived for four years had become a “police no-go zone,” in which the large number of newly arrived Somali immigrants now approached that of Pakistanis already resident. Then she recalled her husband’s encounter with an immigrant who had just arrived from Belgium — on an EU passport, like an increasing number of Muslims these days. The migrant was surprised when the clergyman asked why he had chosen to move into their neighborhood. Finally, he replied, “Everybody knows. Birmingham—best place in Europe to be pure Muslim.”

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...ed-no-go-zones

© Copyright Original Source

And this isn't a recent development. Here's an AP story from 2005:

Source: The Associated Press

SAINT DENIS, Paris — They move in packs at night, burning and wrecking. Their anger is both blind and targeted. They torch their own neighborhoods as well as symbols of the French state that some feel oppresses them.

Whatever their motivation, youths leading the violence that in 10 nights has spread across France sow fear, anger and frustration among their fellow residents of "Les Cites" — grim, public housing estates on the outskirts of French cities heavily populated by poor Arab and black Africans.

Some officials suspect the unrest that reached into Paris proper early Sunday has in part been instigated by gangs hoping to turn their neighborhoods into no-go zones for police so drug trafficking and racketeering can thrive.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/...is-gangs_x.htm

© Copyright Original Source

A similar report from The New York Times reported "no go zones" as a matter of fact in Europe:

Source: The New York Times

(2005) Branded by France's police intelligence agency as one of the country's 150 "no go zones," where police officers should enter only with major reinforcements, La Courneuve was caught up in the violence in which rioters torched cars, trashed businesses and ambushed the police.

It is here that a policeman was seriously injured and hospitalized one night in November when a metal ball was dropped on his head. It is also here that the police beat a young man who hurled insults at them, a moment of frustration and panic that was captured by a television crew and prompted the suspension of several officers.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/12/wo...ear-paris.html

© Copyright Original Source

And there are many more examples. Of course back then, even liberals had some inkling that Islam was a dangerous ideology, so the fact of "no go zones" was reported with disarming honesty. But times have changed, and now we have weasels like CNN's Anderson Cooper apologizing to viewers if a guest dares to breath word of truth.

[rogue06]

Shortly after the terrorist attacks in Paris, France back in 2015, the Molenbeek municipality in Brussels, Belgium (where the terrorists were based) was described as a "no-go area." As reported in the New York Times, Belgium’s home affairs minister, Jan Jambon, said that the government does not "have control of the situation in Molenbeek" and that terrorists' links to Molenbeek was a "gigantic problem" adding that the government needed to "step up efforts" to bring order to the district. That sounds an awful lot like a no-go zone in the making if not already existing.

And in Mark Abrahamson's book Urban Sociology: A Global Introduction, published by Cambridge University Press in 2013 says that the Paris police, not the media, describe La Courneuve, a commune/district in northern Paris, as being a no-go zone. French politicians prefer the much more PC term "Zone urbaine sensible" (ZUS) which means "Sensitive urban zone."

[Roy]

So liberals like to claim, but there is ample evidence that they are very real.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1...o-zones-europe

https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/je...e-all-too-real

So... your support for your claim that there are no-go zones in London is Londoners saying there aren't?

[Mountain Man]

So... your support for your claim that there are no-go zones in London is Londoners saying there aren't?

Did you even read the links?

First link:

Source: Gatestone Institute

If you say that there are some areas where even the police are afraid to go, where the country's normal, secular laws barely apply, then it is indisputable that such areas now exist in several Western European countries. France is one of the hardest hit: it has a large population of Arab and African immigrants, including millions of Muslims.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1...o-zones-europe

© Copyright Original Source

The story goes on to list a number of facts, such as the Stockholm police inspector admitting that his staff is overwhelmed with criminal complaints, and that there are parts of the city where police, fire, and rescue crews are routinely subject to violent attacks; or that an electrical company would no longer do work in the city of Malmö simply because it was too dangerous for its workers to enter the area.

The second link I presented says that "There is evidence aplenty that the real myth here is that the 'Muslim ‘No-Go-Zone’ Myth' is itself a myth" and then goes on to document references to no-go zones in the mainstream media as early as 2005, and possibly as early as 1996.

It baffles me that you could read either of those sources (or the other sources I presented in post #33) and not think that the existence of no-go zones is a foregone conclusions.

[Roy]

Emphases added for the hard of thinking:

So... your support for your claim that there are no-go zones in London is Londoners saying there aren't?

Did you even read the links?

First link:

Source: Gatestone Institute

If you say that there are some areas where even the police are afraid to go, where the country's normal, secular laws barely apply, then it is indisputable that such areas now exist in several Western European countries. France is one of the hardest hit: it has a large population of Arab and African immigrants, including millions of Muslims.

https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/1...o-zones-europe

© Copyright Original Source

The story goes on to list a number of facts, such as the Stockholm police inspector admitting that his staff is overwhelmed with criminal complaints, and that there are parts of the city where police, fire, and rescue crews are routinely subject to violent attacks; or that an electrical company would no longer do work in the city of Malmö simply because it was too dangerous for its workers to enter the area.

The second link I presented says that "There is evidence aplenty that the real myth here is that the 'Muslim ‘No-Go-Zone’ Myth' is itself a myth" and then goes on to document references to no-go zones in the mainstream media as early as 2005, and possibly as early as 1996.

It baffles me that you could read either of those sources (or the other sources I presented in post #33) and not think that the existence of no-go zones is a foregone conclusions.

You said there were no-go zones in London. Not France. Not Sweden.

[Charles]

You said there were no-go zones in London. Not France. Not Sweden.

[Leonhard]

Mountain Man do you really deeply read the articles you link to, or do you simple skim the headlines?

I'm going to give you an example from one of the links you have that I can personally attest is false.

The New Buster article you linked to claimed that Denmark has no-go zones. I'd heard of Sweden supposedly having them. I follow the links and then I found out its claimed that the city I live in, Aarhus, has no-go zones. I live in this city, so I feel I should know if there was an actual no-go zone here. The claim was that 'for several days' some group of men had harrased a shopping mall, Rosenhøj Centeret. Its technically true, during a weekend some young hoodlums had trashed something and broken some windows. That's about it.

Here's a reporting of the event from Jyllands Posten

"Det er en lille gruppe, der fortsat skaber uro i Rosenhøj. Forrige weekend gik 30-40 unge amok, smadrede snesevis af ruder i Rosenhøj Centret og satte ild til grillbaren og en vuggestue.

I den netop overståede weekend blev der også smadret et par ruder og sat ild til Junior- og Ungdomsklubbens lokaler. Men denne gang var det enkeltpersoner eller en meget lille gruppes værk.

»Vi er massivt til stede i området, så hvis en større gruppe lavede noget, ville vi straks opdage det. Derfor er vi sikre på, at det er nogle enkelte, der drøner rundt og det,« siger chefpolitiinspektør Bent Preben Nielsen, Århus Politi."

My best translation attempt:

"Its a small group that continues to cause trouble for the Rosenhøj Center. Last weekend a group of 30-40 went berserk, smashing dozens of windows in the Rosenhøj Center, and sat fire to the grillbar and a nursery.

During this weekend a few more windows were smashed and fire was sat to the Junior- og Youth club area. But this time it was a lone person, or a very small group.

»We are massively at present in the area, so if a larger group does something, we'll be on it. Therefore we feel confident, that its individuals, who are running around and doing this,« says cheif police inspector Bent Preben Nielsen, Århus Politi."

The area that is identified as the no-go zone is the Gjellerup Park, which is an area with a heavy population of immigrants, and from which, we now know, a few muslims went down to join ISIS. And its not a no-go zone. I've been there multiple times. One of my friends lived there. Its a cheap area especially if you're a student and you don't mind a bus commute into the city. The police go there, fireworkers go there, hospital services go there. There's a higher rate of violence, and more gangs, but its not an area police refuse to work in quite the contrary.

I can't see that the reporting for the other places are going to be much more accurate, if such a poor example is lifted up as evidence of widespread European no-go problems.

There are problems with that area, and with the immigrants living there. I'll grant that though.

After the reveal that one small mosque over there had approved of ISIS, the current danish government has turned rather cold to the muslims there. They were in process of getting an approval for the construction of large mosque (with towers and everything), that discussion was subsequently shut down. Further reveals that islamic schools in those areas tended to undereducate the girls, who ended up having a sixth grade by the time they had graduated, has started a discussion about closing them by force and making sure all the children are sent to various (randomly selected) public schools.

Those are significant problems. Its largely a ghetto out there.

But not a no-go zone.

[Mountain Man]

You said there were no-go zones in London.

Ah, right, getting my conversations crossed here.

I thought you were referring to the articles I had posted proving "no go zones" that exist throughout Europe.

London we've already covered in this article I posted earlier:

Source: Breitbart

(Jan 2015) There are also numerous places in England considered “no-go” zones. On January 14, 2014, The London Times reported that numerous murders and rapes are not reported in these no-go zones because of local justice systems. Chief Inspector of Constabulary Tom Winsor confirmed why police officers do not respond in some neighborhoods:

There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves. There are cities in the Midlands where the police never go because they are never called. They never hear of any trouble because the community deals with that on its own. It’s not that the police are afraid to go into these areas or don’t want to go into those areas. But if the police don’t get calls for help then, of course, they won’t know what’s going on.

Muslim Patrol groups often regulate no-go zones. In this video, one group can be seen taking alcohol from people and scolding women to cover their bodies...

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...nted-on-video/

© Copyright Original Source

But wait, there's more!

Source: Breitbart

(Dec 2017) Delivery drivers have branded large parts of London “no-go zones” in which acid attacks and rampant knife crime have made them too fearful to work.

The frequency of assaults using corrosive liquid in the city — officially the world capital of reported acid attacks — has left drivers choosing to take a big pay cut rather than braving dangerous areas of London at night.

“We used to work till 2am – now people are stopping before 10pm,” one moped driver revealed to The Sun.“After 8pm or 9pm, we’re not going to those dangerous places.”

Places named by delivery men as areas of the UK capital which are too dangerous to work include Hackney and Stoke Newington — boroughs which local MP Diane Abbott boasts are “ethnically diverse”, noting just 36 per cent of residents describe themselves as white British.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017...acid-revealed/

© Copyright Original Source

Of course Breitbart isn't the only news organization that's noticed:

Source: Daily Mail

(Jan 2014) Parts of the UK are becoming no-go areas for police because minority communities are operating their own justice systems, according to the Chief Inspector of Constabulary.

The rise in ‘community justice’ means crimes as serious as murder and sexual abuse are going unreported – a situation reminiscent of Belfast in the height of the Troubles.

Tom Winsor said police officers were simply never called to some neighbourhoods, where law-abiding people rather than criminals administer their own form of justice...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...e-systems.html

© Copyright Original Source

Source: Daily Mail

(Dec 2015)Serving police officers today backed Donald Trump's claim that some Muslim communities in the UK are no-go areas because of extremism.

Several Met officers have said the 'Islamification' of some parts of the capital requires 'extra vigilance' and they can't wear uniforms for safety reasons...

The US presidential contender caused worldwide consternation yesterday after a string of incendiary remarks about Muslims, including in Britain, and said: 'We have places in London and other places that are so radicalised that police are afraid for their own lives.'

But one serving officer said today Trump had 'pointed out something plainly obvious, something which I think we aren't as a nation willing to own up to'.

Another policeman said that he and other colleagues fear being terror targets and spoke of the 'dire warning' from bosses not to wear a uniform 'even in my own car'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...oon-RIGHT.html

© Copyright Original Source

Nor is it a recent development:

Source: The New York Sun

(December 2008) Londoners are faced by the threat of the jihadi generation. Whether they are carrying out high profile terrorism or low-level intimidation, these young Islamists are determined to create "facts on the ground" by establishing areas where only Muslims of their own stripe can live. That is what the Anglican Bishop Nazir-Ali of Rochester meant when he spoke of "no-go areas" in many British cities where non-Muslims no longer felt safe — remarks for which he was threatened with death and cold-shouldered by his fellow bishops. Not one spoke up in his defense — least of all the archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, the foremost advocate of Shariah law.

http://www.nysun.com/opinion/londons-no-go-zones/73320/

© Copyright Original Source

Like I said, the evidence is overwhelming, and "no go zones" throughout Europe are a foregone conclusion at this point. It's stick-your-head-in-the-sand stupid to pretend otherwise.

[Mountain Man]

The New Buster article you linked to claimed that Denmark has no-go zones. I'd heard of Sweden supposedly having them. I follow the links and then I found out its claimed that the city I live in, Aarhus, has no-go zones. I live in this city, so I feel I should know if there was an actual no-go zone here. The claim was that 'for several days' some group of men had harrased a shopping mall, Rosenhøj Centeret. Its technically true, during a weekend some young hoodlums had trashed something and broken some windows. That's about it.

Sounds like it was a little more than that:

Source: The Brussels Journal

“For several nights in a row Rosenhøj Mall has been the scene of the worst riots in Århus for years. ‘This area belongs to us’, the youths proclaimed. [...] ‘The police have to stay away. This is our area. We decide what goes on down here’. [...] Falck, a Danish private emergency service, sent a group of fire engines under police escort to the Kjærslund nursery on Søndervangs Allé, right across the street from Rosenhøj Mall. A window had been shattered at the back of the house, and the fire had been blazing, apparently caused by gasoline poured onto the floor and lit. Falck stopped on Viby Square, a couple of kilometers from the site of the arson attack, waiting for the police to turn up so they could be escorted to the nursery.”

https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429

© Copyright Original Source

[Roy]

Ah, right, getting my conversations crossed here.

AKA not reading what you're responding to.

London we've already covered in this article I posted earlier:

Source: Breitbart

(Jan 2015) There are also numerous places in England considered “no-go” zones. On January 14, 2014, The London Times reported that numerous murders and rapes are not reported in these no-go zones because of local justice systems. Chief Inspector of Constabulary Tom Winsor confirmed why police officers do not respond in some neighborhoods:

There are some communities born under other skies who will not involve the police at all. I am reluctant to name the communities in question, but there are communities from other cultures who would prefer to police themselves. There are cities in the Midlands where the police never go because they are never called. They never hear of any trouble because the community deals with that on its own. It’s not that the police are afraid to go into these areas or don’t want to go into those areas. But if the police don’t get calls for help then, of course, they won’t know what’s going on.

Muslim Patrol groups often regulate no-go zones. In this video, one group can be seen taking alcohol from people and scolding women to cover their bodies...

http://www.breitbart.com/national-se...nted-on-video/

© Copyright Original Source

Apart from the trivial issue that London is not a city in the Midlands, your source claims there are no-go areas, but cites some-one saying there aren't:
"It’s not that the police are afraid to go into these areas or don’t want to go into those areas."

Your second source doesn't mention the police.

Your third source is essentially the same as the first, and contains the same contradiction.

Your fourth source is not only based on unverifiable anonymous sources, but explicitly states that the police do go into the so-called 'no-go' areas, albeit with extra precautions.

Your fifth source describes what radical Islamicists want to do, not reality, and includes no evidence whatsoever of no-go areas, just some bishop overstating the facts in the same way that you are.

Like I said, the evidence is overwhelming, and "no go zones" throughout Europe are a foregone conclusion at this point.

There are no 'no-go' zones in London. Your own sources make that clear.

[Roy]

Sounds like it was a little more than that:

Source: The Brussels Journal

“For several nights in a row Rosenhøj Mall has been the scene of the worst riots in Århus for years. ‘This area belongs to us’, the youths proclaimed. [...] ‘The police have to stay away. This is our area. We decide what goes on down here’. [...] Falck, a Danish private emergency service, sent a group of fire engines under police escort to the Kjærslund nursery on Søndervangs Allé, right across the street from Rosenhøj Mall. A window had been shattered at the back of the house, and the fire had been blazing, apparently caused by gasoline poured onto the floor and lit. Falck stopped on Viby Square, a couple of kilometers from the site of the arson attack, waiting for the police to turn up so they could be escorted to the nursery.”

https://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/429

© Copyright Original Source

Leonhard, who lives in Århus, is citing a newspaper based in Århus.

You live on a different continent and are citing a conservative website in another country that is quoting extracts from an anti-Islamic blog.

Who to believe?

[Mountain Man]

There are no 'no-go' zones in London. Your own sources make that clear.

Apparently they make it so "clear" that you had to spin like a top to dismiss what the sources actually said.

[Mountain Man]

Leonhard, who lives in Århus, is citing a newspaper based in Århus.

You live on a different continent and are citing a conservative website in another country that is quoting extracts from an anti-Islamic blog.

Who to believe?

Whoever wrote the article presumably also lives in the city (it reads like an eye-witness report).