Christians Ascend?

[Cow Poke]

I am a futurist, and I have to say that I've never seen CP speak derogatorily about it.

While I generally resist being stuffed into boxes, the futurist view as generally described here is one I actually believe and preach.

[Teallaura]

Very much. And I don't think this is the first time.

My apologies, then.

[Cow Poke]

My apologies, then.

You seem to be a bit quick, of late, to disagree with, or find fault with me. Something I did?

[Cow Poke]

So, let's be clear -- I'm not disputing at all the resurrection of the saints, or the rapture, or anything of the sort...

And I'm not trying to nitpick terminology.

I was genuinely curious, so I asked. When the Lutherans shared our building, I learned a lot of terminology I didn't grow up with, and found it interesting.

I was simply - as stated in the OP - curious if I could be wrong that we (Christians) don't generally refer to our "going to Heaven" as "ascending".

[Jedidiah]

JimL's real goof is thinking that heaven is in outer space. But then that is Jimmy.

[Cow Poke]

JimL's real goof is thinking that heaven is in outer space. But then that is Jimmy.

Yeah, I was going to get into the fact that the Bible says Stephen looked up and beheld Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father, but I knew that would just descend (see what I did there? ) into goofus mockery.

[Leonhard]

JimL's real goof is thinking that heaven is in outer space. But then that is Jimmy.

Him insisting on calling Jesus a zombie regardless of what that word means, vs what resurrection means, should have made that clear.

[Adrift]

I think there was a bit of confusion in the thread in parsing between the concept of ascending and being taken up into the heavens. I don't know whether or not Jesus ascended into the clouds upon his own power, or through the power of the Father, but I think it probably doesn't make much difference. The Greek word for "ascend" simply means something like "goes on up", and is used in all sorts of ways. So for instance we read in Mark 10:32a, "And they were on the road, going up

"No-one [else] has ascended into heaven and remained there [so as to be able to speak authoritatively about heavenly things] but only the one who has come down from heaven [is equipped to do so]."

This is especially relevant to John's audience, as they would have been familiar with intertestamental works like the the Books of Enoch which suggest that Enoch came down from heaven with special knowledge about the Watchers, and all sort of end time mysteries.

What I think is the more interesting topic is what happened to Enoch and Elijah. I've heard some people say that the Bible doesn't report that Enoch didn't die, but that he was transported so that he wouldn't see death, and while I think that interpretation is likely incorrect, I think there might be something to it. It may be that Enoch and Elijah were taken, in that, at the natural point near when they should have died, instead of dying a mortal death, their spirits were simply received into Abraham's Bosom directly. What God did with their physical bodies then is the mystery. We know from Paul that the physical can't inherit the kingdom of God, nor the imperishable the perishable, so they couldn't have taken their mortal bodies with them. We also know that Jesus is the first-fruit, not Enoch or Elijah. So they can't be in resurrected bodies. It seems likely to me, then, that they're currently in the presence of the saints who died natural deaths, waiting for the general resurrection as we all are.

[Cow Poke]

I think there was a bit of confusion in the thread in parsing between the concept of ascending and being taken up into the heavens. I don't know whether or not Jesus ascended into the clouds upon his own power, or through the power of the Father, but I think it probably doesn't make much difference. The Greek word for "ascend" simply means something like "goes on up", and is used in all sorts of ways. So for instance we read in Mark 10:32a, "And they were on the road, going up

"No-one [else] has ascended into heaven and remained there [so as to be able to speak authoritatively about heavenly things] but only the one who has come down from heaven [is equipped to do so]."

This is especially relevant to John's audience, as they would have been familiar with intertestamental works like the the Books of Enoch which suggest that Enoch came down from heaven with special knowledge about the Watchers, and all sort of end time mysteries.

What I think is the more interesting topic is what happened to Enoch and Elijah. I've heard some people say that the Bible doesn't report that Enoch didn't die, but that he was transported so that he wouldn't see death, and while I think that interpretation is likely incorrect, I think there might be something to it. It may be that Enoch and Elijah were taken, in that, at the natural point near when they should have died, instead of dying a mortal death, their spirits were simply received into Abraham's Bosom directly. What God did with their physical bodies then is the mystery. We know from Paul that the physical can't inherit the kingdom of God, nor the imperishable the perishable, so they couldn't have taken their mortal bodies with them. We also know that Jesus is the first-fruit, not Enoch or Elijah. So they can't be in resurrected bodies. It seems likely to me, then, that they're currently in the presence of the saints who died natural deaths, waiting for the general resurrection as we all are.

While I appreciate your input, I think you're way overthinking this for this thread. I was just curious if other Christians used the word "ascend" for what it is we do when we go to Heaven, either being resurrected from the dead, or "caught up" to Him in life.

I've heard of our "going to heaven" being referred to as "caught up", "raptured", "translated"... but I have never heard of it being described in terms of "ascended". Again, the only time I ever hear (to my knowledge) of an "ascension" is in reference to Jesus Himself.

[NorrinRadd]

... I was just curious if other Christians used the word "ascend" for what it is we do when we go to Heaven, either being resurrected from the dead, or "caught up" to Him in life.

I've heard of our "going to heaven" being referred to as "caught up", "raptured", "translated"... but I have never heard of it being described in terms of "ascended". Again, the only time I ever hear (to my knowledge) of an "ascension" is in reference to Jesus Himself.

This.

Also, I have to admit that since I've been regularly watching "Stargate: Atlantis" on CometTV lately, their use of "ascention" was the first thing that popped to mind.

[KingsGambit]

Whoa, where did I make fun of the futurist stance? I'm not even convinced of any one view of eschatology?

[Adrift]

While I appreciate your input, I think you're way overthinking this for this thread. I was just curious if other Christians used the word "ascend" for what it is we do when we go to Heaven, either being resurrected from the dead, or "caught up" to Him in life.

I've heard of our "going to heaven" being referred to as "caught up", "raptured", "translated"... but I have never heard of it being described in terms of "ascended". Again, the only time I ever hear (to my knowledge) of an "ascension" is in reference to Jesus Himself.

See my first paragraph. I don't see anything wrong with the idea of us ascending into heaven during the general resurrection. I feel I have heard it used that way. I know for certain I've heard the word "ascended" in reference to Elijah (Ben Witherington, for instance, uses it that way). NT Wright translates Psalm 139:8 as "He caused me to ascend from the depths of Sheol", and this is a common word you see in other translations (including the JPS Tanakh). I honestly don't think the word "ascend" is the issue here.

[NorrinRadd]

See my first paragraph. I don't see anything wrong with the idea of us ascending into heaven during the general resurrection. I feel I have heard it used that way. I know for certain I've heard the word "ascended" in reference to Elijah (Ben Witherington, for instance, uses it that way). NT Wright translates Psalm 139:8 as "He caused me to ascend from the depths of Sheol", and this is a common word you see in other translations (including the JPS Tanakh). I honestly don't think the word "ascend" is the issue here.

I'd say the terminology is unconventional, not incorrect.

There's also the issue of routinely using terminology in ways that may or may not be consistent with Scripture.

[One Bad Pig]

While I appreciate your input, I think you're way overthinking this for this thread. I was just curious if other Christians used the word "ascend" for what it is we do when we go to Heaven, either being resurrected from the dead, or "caught up" to Him in life.

I've heard of our "going to heaven" being referred to as "caught up", "raptured", "translated"... but I have never heard of it being described in terms of "ascended". Again, the only time I ever hear (to my knowledge) of an "ascension" is in reference to Jesus Himself.

In social science parlance, when the emperor travels to a city the city dignitaries go to meet him outside the gates and escort him in. Similarly, when Jesus returns, we will rise to meet him in the sky and escort him back down to the ground.

[Faber]

Yeah, I was going to get into the fact that the Bible says Stephen looked up and beheld Jesus standing at the right hand of the Father, but I knew that would just descend (see what I did there? ) into goofus mockery.

But that was not more than a few years after Jesus ascended to heaven. Alpha Centauri is farther away than that.