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Thread: Atheists praying

  1. #81
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    As opposed to a descript one looking to take over the world?
    Rocks will eventually take over the world!
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  2. #82
    radical strawberry
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    1 Cor 1:18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

    John 8:47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.
    Quote Originally Posted by JimL View Post
    Sounds like something someone with an agenda would say when they want you to believe them. You wouldn't want to be a fool would you, you don't want to die, do you? C'mon, pretend your talking to god, pretend you can hear him, and you won't die! If you don't talk to god, if you can't hear him, it's because you're evil, and you don't belong to god, therefore you will die.
    MM took JimL to task for this exchange, accusing him of mocking Christian prayers and belief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    And yet in this post, you're mocking Christians for praying and believing that God hears us. Make up your mind, Jimmy, because you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
    In Sparko's defense, he's not actually calling JimL a fool, he's quoting Paul doing so instead. But that's not much of a distinction, as Sparko clearly endorses Paul's sentiment.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sparko View Post
    Except you keep confirming the truth of those verses with every idiotic post you make.
    In JimL's defense, he's mocking Paul, not Christians, which again isn't much of a distinction for those who consider Paul's epistles literally the word of their God. Still, if folks want to attack using Paul as a human shield, they should expect Paul's gonna be the first casualty.

    Nobody buys my argument that folks still believe in God because they didn't eat the cookies. Of course, I'm talking about the right™ cookies. Logically and rhetorically, this doesn't have much to distinguish it from John's reason we don't hear his God.

    I don't care much for JimL's tone, but it's hard to justify taking him to task for it when he's clearly receiving more harsh criticism than he's handing out, from dogpilers.

    Still, I'll try.


    JimL, consider the benefits of empathy.

    Sparko's a decent guy, and even if MM is "pure poison," in the words of an old friend who passed recently, there's still good reason to hesitate before attacking. Time and again, in private conversations with Crystal, also known for biting attacks, it became clear to me there were sympathetic readings based on a broader view of her life.

    MM has a physical disability that would make me mad at the world, not that I'm mentioning that as anything other than a possible example. But given that examples are possible, taking one step back isn't merely good ethics, it's good hermeneutics.

    Looking for sympathetic readings leads to a better understanding, and most telling, a better understanding that would not be possible otherwise.

    Now if Paul had said that, instead, I'd be a bit more sympathetic with his arguments, and their apologists. But no, he just had to call me a fool, and in doing so lost the opportunity to understand me, and, given that his words are preserved and accorded disproportionate weight, continue to act as a bar to understanding.

    Mut. mut.

  3. #83
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Don't take your mind-reading act on the road. It needs a lot of work.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

  4. #84
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by rogue06 View Post
    And yet 20% of British non-believers openly acknowledge that they do upon occasion pray -- especially when faced with a crisis or emergency.
    "Some do" contradicts "None don't."

  5. Amen shunyadragon amen'd this post.
  6. #85
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    Would anybody pray to a lower power?
    Likely pray to nothing of power. As per results it does not make much difference between atheists and theists concerning the outcome.

    Many non-believers pray and meditate for inner guidance.

    Well ah . . . many Buddhist pray to the Buddhas for enlightenment so that they may be enlightened.

    The bottom line is you know who you pray to or for, but you either do not know, do not care, or do not believe in what other pray to,
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  7. #86
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Likely pray to nothing of power.
    What is the expected outcome of praying to something or someone with no power to answer the prayer or grant the petition?

    As per results it does not make much difference between atheists and theists concerning the outcome.
    I would disagree. If my prayers were to "get stuff", admittedly they don't always work. My prayers, however, are more about aligning my will with God's. The outcome there, INMHBAO, works quite well at times.

    Many non-believers pray and meditate for inner guidance.
    From whom?

    Well ah . . . many Buddhist pray to the Buddhas for enlightenment so that they may be enlightened.
    Would Buddha not be considered a 'higher power'?

    The bottom line is you know who you pray to or for, but you either do not know, do not care, or do not believe in what other pray to,
    You might ask for some inner guidance and try that line again.

    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  8. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.
  9. #87
    tWebber shunyadragon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    What is the expected outcome of praying to something or someone with no power to answer the prayer or grant the petition?
    Atheist prayers do not involve the grant of petition, how antiquated.
    I would disagree. If my prayers were to "get stuff", admittedly they don't always work. My prayers, however, are more about aligning my will with God's. The outcome there, INMHBAO, works quite well at times.
    Outcome of prayers to 'grant petition' is too anecdotal to be real. Of course, atheist prayers are not seeking ;grants of petition.' Self-reflective prayers for the inner search of meaning and answers without God among atheists have some parallels with some theist prayers,

    From whom?
    Nobody.


    Would Buddha not be considered a 'higher power'?

    No Buddha in the view of Buddhist was another human like everyone who has tained enlightenment.

    You might ask for some inner guidance and try that line again.
    No problem, one might ask for inner guidance through self-reflection, Again, again and yes again . . .
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

  10. #88
    tWebber Tassman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cow Poke View Post
    What is the expected outcome of praying to something or someone with no power to answer the prayer or grant the petition?
    Prayers are about petitioning a deity. What atheists do is not pray but practice meditation or self-reflection, which is similar but not the same thing.

    I would disagree. If my prayers were to "get stuff", admittedly they don't always work. My prayers, however, are more about aligning my will with God's. The outcome there, INMHBAO, works quite well at times.
    Trying to get stuff is rather futile. But aligning one’s will or inner-self with the values of the community via meditation and reflection is what most people do all the time. We all try to ‘fit-in’.

    From whom?
    From the “better angels of our nature”, as atheist psychologist Stephen Pinker would say

    Would Buddha not be considered a 'higher power'?
    Buddhism, properly understood, is a philosophy of life not a religion. The object is to gain enlightenment in emulation of the Buddha.
    Last edited by Tassman; 02-03-2018 at 04:23 AM.
    “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

  11. Amen JimL amen'd this post.
  12. #89
    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Atheists who pray are like Christians who won't aid the poor - their actions do not match their beliefs.

  13. Amen element771 amen'd this post.
  14. #90
    See, the Thing is... Cow Poke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tassman View Post
    Prayers are about petitioning a deity. What atheists do is not pray but practice meditation or self-reflection, which is similar but not the same thing.
    I wasn't even looking for this.

    Meditation DOESN'T make you a calmer person: Buddhist practice leaves people just as aggressive and prejudiced, reveals study

    If every eight-year-old in the world is taught meditation, the world will be without violence within one generation,' the Dalai Lama claims.

    But it appears the respected monk could be wrong.

    For scientists have revealed the trendy Buddhist practice does not make you more compassionate, less aggressive or prejudiced.

    Meditation, incorporating a range of spiritual and religious beliefs, has been touted for decades as being able to make the world a better place.

    However, researchers from the UK, New Zealand and The Netherlands, have found meditation doesn't change how adults behave towards others.



    1 Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

  15. Amen Jedidiah amen'd this post.

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