Originally posted by Tassman
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If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostI don't suppose you could provide a cite that doesn't blow your statement out of the water.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe long history of barbaric behaviour for which the Abrahamic religions have been responsible, has been on a par with the non-Abrahamic populous that surrounded them. IOW: the religion makes no difference for better or worse...which is my point. It's ineffective.
Vice versa more like it!
Next, you need to show that a person or people with religion is no different than the same people or person without that religion. Since that can only be speculation you can only convince those who find your speculations valuable. And since you are admittedly dishonest (seeing nothing wrong with plagiarism) and evidently have an axe to grind those who find your speculations convincing is going to be a small and gullible group.
Lastly, analyzing the impact of religions with thousands of years of history across very different peoples, circumstances and cultures is not at all a simple task, except for obviously shallow 'thinkers' like yourself....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostBeginning with Judaism’s violence against the Canaanites 4,000 years ago, through to the violence of the Inquisitions, religious wars and the Christian colonial expansions and right up to the Islamic extremism of today, the Abrahamic religions have been a history of barbaric behaviour...either because of the religion or despite it.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostYour objection can't even get off the ground, since you can't provide an objective moral standard to measure things against.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by MaxVel View PostLastly, analyzing the impact of religions with thousands of years of history across very different peoples, circumstances and cultures is not at all a simple task, except for obviously shallow 'thinkers' like yourself.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe long history of barbaric behaviour for which the Abrahamic religions have been responsible, has been on a par with the non-Abrahamic populous that surrounded them. IOW: the religion makes no difference for better or worse...which is my point. It's ineffective.
Pol Pot: 1 - 3 million
Hitler: 15 - 20 million
Stalin: 20 - 25 million
Mao Zedong: 40 - 70 million
Total: 76 - 118 million people
Can you come up with a religious body count that is "on par" with roughly 100 million?
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostBeginning with Judaism’s violence against the Canaanites 4,000 years ago, through to the violence of the Inquisitions, religious wars and the Christian colonial expansions and right up to the Islamic extremism of today, the Abrahamic religions have been a history of barbaric behaviour...either because of the religion or despite it.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostWe have only seen the rise of atheistic nations in the past hundred years and their track record to date is not very good. And that is an understatement.“He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThe track record of the more secular nations, e.g. in the Scandinavian countries, is very good...considerably better in many instances than overtly religious countries, including the USA.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by element771 View PostTo quote Heisenberg:
“The first gulp from the glass of natural sciences will turn you into an atheist, but at the bottom of the glass God is waiting for you”
or Francis Bacon:
“A little philosophy inclineth man's mind to atheism, but depth in philosophy bringeth men's minds about to religion.”
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Originally posted by lao tzu View PostCan't be certain, but I assume that's a veiled death threat at Schrodinger's cat.
Originally posted by lao tzu View PostAnd yet, the further one goes into science and philosophy, the more atheists one encounters.
I think that the "new atheists" confirm the quote in some respects. They may be okay at science but their level of philosophical discourse is laughable.
The number of atheists in science has remained steady for pretty much a century... not sure about philosophers.
However I did find the following quote from Thomas Nagel to be refreshingly honest:
“I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I’m right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that. My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare condition and that it is responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our time."
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Originally posted by element771 View PostIt is obviously.
A couple of things....
I think that the "new atheists" confirm the quote in some respects. They may be okay at science but their level of philosophical discourse is laughable.
The number of atheists in science, has remained steady for pretty much a century... not sure about philosophers.
But as scientific and philosophical competency increases, the proportion of atheists also increases to over 90 percent in the National Academy, and the remnant theists have highly nuanced views of divinity.
However I did find the following quote from Thomas Nagel to be refreshingly honest:
“I speak from experience, being strongly subject to this fear myself: I want atheism to be true and am made uneasy by the fact that some of the most intelligent and well-informed people I know are religious believers. It isn’t just that I don’t believe in God and, naturally, hope that I’m right in my belief. It’s that I hope there is no God! I don’t want there to be a God; I don’t want the universe to be like that. My guess is that this cosmic authority problem is not a rare condition and that it is responsible for much of the scientism and reductionism of our time."
It's like theistic affirmative action or something.
Unless you're Francis Collins, in which case you're despised for supporting that evillusion stuff. Entirely by coincidence, I'm sure, the proportion of biologists who are atheists is higher than in any other field. It's not as if Christians were deliberately driving them out of their churches. Nah, that couldn't be it.
Nagel doesn't speak for any but the smallest fringe of scientists. He certainly doesn't speak for me.
I'll agree with him to this extent: I'd prefer, when trying to scrutinize the inscrutable, that there weren't any divine actors out there chortling with glee as they bump the chess table and make the game unplayable.
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