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New California declares "independence" from California in bid to become 51st state

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    No, rep is by pop. It would only increase the Senate size.
    Senate.jpg
    “I didn’t go to religion to make me happy. I always knew a bottle of Port would do that. If you want a religion to make you feel really comfortable, I certainly don’t recommend Christianity.” - C.S. Lewis

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      According to the US constitution if a state wants to split up: "New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no... Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress."

      Kentucky, Maine, and West Virginia were created from splitting up other states, and their creation required both state-assembly approval as well as federal-congressional approval, as per the constitution.
      So like I said originally, the California legislature will never agree to it because they won't want to give up their empire
      Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
      But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
      Than a fool in the eyes of God


      From "Fools Gold" by Petra

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
        So like I said originally, the California legislature will never agree to it because they won't want to give up their empire
        Well the Californian legislature will ultimately agree to what the people demand, otherwise they'll get voted out. If it wins in a referendum it would take a brave legislature to reject it.

        I would say it would be vastly more likely to be blocked at the congressional level. Republicans would rather cut off their arms than grant the Democrats additional seats in the senate that would result from the creation of new states. That's why they would never approve splitting California, or giving statehood to DC or PR. If the Democrats were even half as strategic as the Republicans are at using their power to tip the system in their favor, then the next time the Dems control congress they would turn all of those into states to give themselves +6 Senate seats as compared to Republicans (assuming splitting Cal into 4 goes 3-1 to the Dems).

        Of course, you don't necessarily want to go down that road... the Republicans could strike back next time they control the Congress by splitting some red state into two and thus giving themselves +2 senate seats. Just because the current rational candidates for statehood (Splitting Cal, DC, PR) all lean blue, doesn't mean that the Republicans couldn't dream up some irrational candidates for statehood that they've chosen to favor themselves. The better solution would be to do a constitutional amendment to eliminate the Senate and Presidency and turn Congress into a parliamentary system like the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, which would both help solve the current US government dysfunction as well as the disturbing levels of power that are gradually accruing to the presidency.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          Well the Californian legislature will ultimately agree to what the people demand, otherwise they'll get voted out. If it wins in a referendum it would take a brave legislature to reject it.
          Or lunacy, which appears pretty common in Cali.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            Or lunacy, which appears pretty common in Cali.
            Folks have noted for years that California is America's cereal bowl -- full of flakes, fruits and nuts.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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            • #36
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              Folks have noted for years that California is America's cereal bowl -- full of flakes, fruits and nuts.
              But...I like cereal.
              I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Well the Californian legislature will ultimately agree to what the people demand, otherwise they'll get voted out. If it wins in a referendum it would take a brave legislature to reject it.

                I would say it would be vastly more likely to be blocked at the congressional level. Republicans would rather cut off their arms than grant the Democrats additional seats in the senate that would result from the creation of new states. That's why they would never approve splitting California, or giving statehood to DC or PR. If the Democrats were even half as strategic as the Republicans are at using their power to tip the system in their favor, then the next time the Dems control congress they would turn all of those into states to give themselves +6 Senate seats as compared to Republicans (assuming splitting Cal into 4 goes 3-1 to the Dems).

                Of course, you don't necessarily want to go down that road... the Republicans could strike back next time they control the Congress by splitting some red state into two and thus giving themselves +2 senate seats. Just because the current rational candidates for statehood (Splitting Cal, DC, PR) all lean blue, doesn't mean that the Republicans couldn't dream up some irrational candidates for statehood that they've chosen to favor themselves. The better solution would be to do a constitutional amendment to eliminate the Senate and Presidency and turn Congress into a parliamentary system like the UK, Canada, Australia, New Zealand etc, which would both help solve the current US government dysfunction as well as the disturbing levels of power that are gradually accruing to the presidency.
                I agree it won't happen, but part of what California would split into could end up being republican dominated. That is why some of the people want to split off - they are tired of their votes being dismissed by LA and San Francisco. It all depends on how they split up the state.

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                  But...I like cereal.
                  commie!

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    I agree it won't happen, but part of what California would split into could end up being republican dominated. That is why some of the people want to split off - they are tired of their votes being dismissed by LA and San Francisco. It all depends on how they split up the state.
                    If done as the State of Jackson movement wants you'll have Democrats in control of California(LA and San francisco) and republicans in control of the State of Jackson so, Starlight is wrong the democrat controlled california legislature will not accept the split even if the people want it they like things just the way they are. So do the Democrats who want to control the United States.

                    Starlight again shows how little he knows about American politics he should stop trying to tell his grandmother how to suck eggs and listen to us who live here, but I suspect he will continue to so. He is so arrogantly anti America and it's ideals that he will continue to show how Anti intellectual, close minded, and bigoted he is by trying to tell us how it is instead of realizing that those of us who live here know better then the non scholarly and non factual news sources sources the leftist news sources and wikpedia that tell him what he wants to hear instead of the facts.
                    Last edited by RumTumTugger; 04-13-2018, 03:55 PM.

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                    • #40
                      Whether it passes this go round or not, it's a big issue for California that it keeps recurring and that it can get on the ballot.
                      "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                      "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

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                      My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        Well the Californian legislature will ultimately agree to what the people demand, otherwise they'll get voted out. If it wins in a referendum it would take a brave legislature to reject it.
                        Depends on how binding the referendum is. If it's just an advisory referendum I expect they'd have to not only win, but win overwhelmingly for it to be seriously considered.

                        I would say it would be vastly more likely to be blocked at the congressional level. Republicans would rather cut off their arms than grant the Democrats additional seats in the senate that would result from the creation of new states.
                        Actually, it may result in Republicans gaining seats. From my understanding, California in general isn't anywhere near as liberal as it's stereotyped as being. However, Los Angeles is extremely liberal, and its high population allows it to set the laws and elect senators for the rest of the state. Separating other parts of the state from LA would remove its influence over them and could very easily result in an increase in Republican senators.

                        Of course, a lot would depend on exactly where the state would be split up.

                        That's why they would never approve splitting California, or giving statehood to DC or PR.
                        Actually, both the Democrats and Republicans seem to have generally similar attitudes towards Puerto Rican statehood. Heck, the Republican platform gives direct support to the idea. The reason Puerto Rico isn't likely to become a state is because there's a lack of support for that in Puerto Rico. You might look at the referendums that apparently show support, but the truth is those things are constantly boycotted (hence low turnout for them) and thus are not a reliable indicator as to what the general populace of the island wants.

                        I'd expect statehood for DC is extremely partisan, however.

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                        • #42
                          Not that I think this will actually go anywhere, but apparently there are those who want THREE states from California, and actually managed to get it on the ballet for November...

                          http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-p...612-story.html
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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                          • #43
                            Getting it on the ballot is huge anyway.
                            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                            My Personal Blog

                            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                            Quill Sword

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