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Puerto Rico school gets power after 112 days without, 40% of people still lack power

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  • #16
    I agree that the handling of the Puerto Rico recovery has been abysmal. I don't blame Trump, but the whole US Government. PR is a US territory, and it's citizens are US citizens, yet we don't treat it like one. It is shameful.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Tassman View Post
      The residents of this "third world craphole", Donald, are citizens of the USA and warrant equal treatment to that afforded to Florida and Texas.
      Unfortunately the utility company there, which is owned by the Puerto Rican government (which is reliably liberal Democrat) allowed everything to deteriorate for decades through a combination of corruption and incompetence and it is not something that can be fixed quickly since they're having to rebuild significant portions of it from the ground up

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
        FTFY. Can we keep the racism down to a dull roar please?

        ...
        You don't seem to be able to, no. Perhaps if you didn't judge every comment that you don't agree with as malicious, you'd be able to overcome your inherent racism and bigotry.

        And, no, not kidding - you see racism everywhere - that tells more about you than others. We tend to see what we are looking for - and we usually look for things like ourselves.

        If you want to end racism, start with the guy in the mirror. As long as you hate others for any irrational cause, you cannot stop being racist. It's not about race - it's about hate. The same hate that made you lash out at someone who wasn't even mentioning race - and the same hate that makes you mistreat everyone who doesn't accept the same beliefs you do.

        You aren't part of the solution - you're part of the problem.
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        • #19
          Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
          Besides the fact that the governor of Feces Foramen Island is lying about the amount of money they have, there's this.
          Most stories have two sides: https://theintercept.com/2018/01/16/...tion-supplies/

          So which is correct?
          The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

          I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
            You don't seem to be able to, no. Perhaps if you didn't judge every comment that you don't agree with as malicious, you'd be able to overcome your inherent racism and bigotry.

            And, no, not kidding - you see racism everywhere - that tells more about you than others. We tend to see what we are looking for - and we usually look for things like ourselves.

            If you want to end racism, start with the guy in the mirror. As long as you hate others for any irrational cause, you cannot stop being racist. It's not about race - it's about hate. The same hate that made you lash out at someone who wasn't even mentioning race - and the same hate that makes you mistreat everyone who doesn't accept the same beliefs you do.

            You aren't part of the solution - you're part of the problem.
            Um, wow, not quite sure how to respond to this level of delusional ranting. Your craziness is noted.
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
              Most stories have two sides: https://theintercept.com/2018/01/16/...tion-supplies/

              So which is correct?
              An interesting article and an interesting question. Amidst the finger pointing these things seem clear: The recovery work isn't getting done at a satisfactory pace, and the buck ultimately stops with the Trump.

              If I were Trump I'd have been getting daily briefings from day 1 after the hurricane on the progress of the work and the schedule. The second it became clear it would take more than a week to restore power to the island, I'd have been deploying half the US military to land with generators and water and be supervising the rapid reconstruction of the power grid.

              Whereas Trump's contribution seems to have been to go and throw half a dozen supermarket paper towels at people for a press op, and then call them beautiful paper towels, and then forgot about the whole thing.
              "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
              "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
              "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                An interesting article and an interesting question. Amidst the finger pointing these things seem clear: The recovery work isn't getting done at a satisfactory pace, and the buck ultimately stops with the Trump.

                If I were Trump I'd have been getting daily briefings from day 1 after the hurricane on the progress of the work and the schedule. The second it became clear it would take more than a week to restore power to the island, I'd have been deploying half the US military to land with generators and water and be supervising the rapid reconstruction of the power grid.

                Whereas Trump's contribution seems to have been to go and throw half a dozen supermarket paper towels at people for a press op, and then call them beautiful paper towels, and then forgot about the whole thing.
                There is little doubt that the recovery has been mismanaged. As for where the blame falls? At this point, Trump seems to be the ultimate in teflon politicians. It no longer seems to matter what he says or does - it is merely swept away and on it goes to the next issue. I have to admit that I find myself increasingly discouraged by what our citizens accept as "business as usual" from the highest office in the land...

                Meanwhile, we appear to be cruising to a government shutdown. That didn't help Republicans so much last time, and I think it will not help Democrats this time. If Democrats permit a shutdown, I suspect they will pay at midterms. The better course, IMO, as painful as it would be for so many, would be to stand fast against that ridiculous wall, let Trump attack the DACA population, and then hang it around his neck at midterms and 2020.
                Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-19-2018, 01:56 PM.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                  There is little doubt that the recovery has been mismanaged. As for where the blame falls? At this point, Trump seems to be the ultimate in teflon politicians.
                  Well the blame for the Katrina recovery fell on Bush. I see no reason not to hang the blame for the Puerto Rican recovery on Trump.

                  Meanwhile, we appear to be cruising to a government shutdown.
                  Yep... a weird product of the structure of the US political system. Here if the political situation became unworkable it would just trigger an immediate new election and the politicians would be replaced by the people. But in the US you have a gratuitous amount of 'checks and balances' that mostly have the effect of grinding the political process to a halt, but you lack the real check and balance of the ability to call a new election in a situation of the politicians not functioning properly.

                  That didn't help Republicans so much last time, and I think it will not help Democrats this time.
                  I think blame typically goes to the majority party in congress. In the last shutdown the Republicans had a majority, so they took the blame for the shutdown. This time they have majorities everywhere, so they'll really take the blame.

                  If Democrats permit a shutdown, I susect they will pay at midterms.
                  I disagree. I think as long as the Dems can at least do a half-decent PR job on the shutdown, the Republicans will get all the blame for it. All the Dems need to say is "look, the Republicans have majorities and they can't even govern, they're just an anti-government party, they can't actually run a government."

                  The better course, IMO, as painful as it would be for so many, would be to stand fast against that ridiculous wall, let Trump attack the DACA population, and then hang it around his neck at midterms and 2020.
                  Well standing fast against the wall is part of the shutdown, because the Dems are refusing to allow wall funding to be passed in the budget.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Well the blame for the Katrina recovery fell on Bush. I see no reason not to hang the blame for the Puerto Rican recovery on Trump.

                    Yep... a weird product of the structure of the US political system. Here if the political situation became unworkable it would just trigger an immediate new election and the politicians would be replaced by the people. But in the US you have a gratuitous amount of 'checks and balances' that mostly have the effect of grinding the political process to a halt, but you lack the real check and balance of the ability to call a new election in a situation of the politicians not functioning properly.

                    I think blame typically goes to the majority party in congress. In the last shutdown the Republicans had a majority, so they took the blame for the shutdown. This time they have majorities everywhere, so they'll really take the blame.

                    I disagree. I think as long as the Dems can at least do a half-decent PR job on the shutdown, the Republicans will get all the blame for it. All the Dems need to say is "look, the Republicans have majorities and they can't even govern, they're just an anti-government party, they can't actually run a government."
                    When it comes to media savvy, Trump is a borderline genuis. If the Democrats have to depend on a good PR campaign, I think they're likely in trouble.

                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    Well standing fast against the wall is part of the shutdown, because the Dems are refusing to allow wall funding to be passed in the budget.
                    As I understand it, the stand-off is Wall-for-DACA. If the Dem let go of DACA, and Republicans don't let go of wall funding, the Dem case will be stronger that Republicans insisted on shutting down the government for a wall that most of us do not want. Given that most of us DO want the DACA people to be well treated, the Dems may have a strong case. But I don't trust their ability to message it well.
                    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                    I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                      When it comes to media savvy, Trump is a borderline genuis. If the Democrats have to depend on a good PR campaign, I think they're likely in trouble.



                      As I understand it, the stand-off is Wall-for-DACA. If the Dem let go of DACA, and Republicans don't let go of wall funding, the Dem case will be stronger that Republicans insisted on shutting down the government for a wall that most of us do not want. Given that most of us DO want the DACA people to be well treated, the Dems may have a strong case. But I don't trust their ability to message it well.
                      Both sides are using the DACA Dreamers as "political pawns." Big deal. Legislation gets enacted by politics, and you use the leverage you have. Live with it.

                      In this case, the Dems want to cram DACA into the spending bill, where it has no legitimate place. (These "continuing resolutions" and even the "omnibus" bills should not even exist in the first place, but that's a separate honeypot.)

                      The Republicans want to keep DACA separate from the spending bill, and deal with it along with related immigration issues -- border security ("The Wall," but also other stuff), chain migration, visa lottery. Even then, they would need to try to address a more "comprehensive" and detailed immigration policy later. Aside from the fact that DACA has no legitimate relation to the spending bill, and does have relation to immigration issues, the Republicans *need* to keep it linked to some of the immigration stuff as leverage.

                      So bring on the shutdown.
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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                        Both sides are using the DACA Dreamers as "political pawns." Big deal. Legislation gets enacted by politics, and you use the leverage you have. Live with it.

                        In this case, the Dems want to cram DACA into the spending bill, where it has no legitimate place. (These "continuing resolutions" and even the "omnibus" bills should not even exist in the first place, but that's a separate honeypot.)

                        The Republicans want to keep DACA separate from the spending bill, and deal with it along with related immigration issues -- border security ("The Wall," but also other stuff), chain migration, visa lottery. Even then, they would need to try to address a more "comprehensive" and detailed immigration policy later. Aside from the fact that DACA has no legitimate relation to the spending bill, and does have relation to immigration issues, the Republicans *need* to keep it linked to some of the immigration stuff as leverage.

                        So bring on the shutdown.
                        Keeping DACA with immigration reform makes sense, and would be a better way to go, IMO. As I said, I think the dems are making a mistake. But thsi is certainly not the first time unrelated issues have been attached to a spending bill, by either party.
                        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          Keeping DACA with immigration reform makes sense, and would be a better way to go, IMO. As I said, I think the dems are making a mistake. But thsi is certainly not the first time unrelated issues have been attached to a spending bill, by either party.
                          Attaching things onto a bill is a very old tradition in Washington likely stretching back to George Washington's first term.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                            There is little doubt that the recovery has been mismanaged. As for where the blame falls? At this point, Trump seems to be the ultimate in teflon politicians. It no longer seems to matter what he says or does - it is merely swept away and on it goes to the next issue. I have to admit that I find myself increasingly discouraged by what our citizens accept as "business as usual" from the highest office in the land...
                            I think you’re thinking of Obama as the ultimate ‘Teflon politician’ as you so put it. Anyway the mismanagement of Puerto Rico’s recovery started years before Trump took office. The Puerto Rician power grid was in terrible shape before Maria ever existed and it got in that state due to the mismanagement by the Puerto Rician government. Having to rebuild a power grid from the ground up is no easy task that might take years to accomplish. That’s where the blame sits, on those that ignored the looming disaster before them.
                            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Attaching things onto a bill is a very old tradition in Washington likely stretching back to George Washington's first term.
                              Agreed
                              The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                              I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
                                I think you’re thinking of Obama as the ultimate ‘Teflon politician’ as you so put it. Anyway the mismanagement of Puerto Rico’s recovery started years before Trump took office. The Puerto Rician power grid was in terrible shape before Maria ever existed and it got in that state due to the mismanagement by the Puerto Rician government. Having to rebuild a power grid from the ground up is no easy task that might take years to accomplish. That’s where the blame sits, on those that ignored the looming disaster before them.
                                Yes - that is also part of the problem.
                                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                                Comment

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