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Thread: Was Jesus crucified during the Passover?

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    tWebber Aractus's Avatar
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    Was Jesus crucified during the Passover?

    Maybe, maybe not. I suddenly realised something the other day: the evidence that Jesus is killed during the Passover isn't compelling. Our two earliest sources do not mention it.

    Our first earliest source (undisputed) is Paul. Paul says Jesus was killed by the rulers of this age, and that he "died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" both in 1 Corinthians. Yet he doesn't mention the Last Supper as being a Passover, or that it was in fact Jesus' last meal, and nor does he mention the crucifixion taking place during (or just before) the Passover.

    The next earliest source is Acts 13:26-41, where the author records a full account of the Passion narrative, but it does not include anything about a Passover. Also it appears to be free from Marcan influence as well as the other New Testament gospels. This might sound strange because the author also wrote the gospel of Luke, however it is clear that in this passage Luke is recounting a completely separate telling of the passion narrative, one that is more basic, and he attributes it to Paul. And perhaps importantly on the attribution, it largely agrees with what Paul teaches about it in his letters, where Paul doesn't show any knowledge of things that appear later in the gospel versions.

    Examples of things not found in Acts or Paul include but are not limited to- the Passover, Joseph of Arimathea, the Jews asking for Barabbas to be freed, the empty tomb, and the physical resurrection. Examples of things found in the Acts narrative and the Paul narrative include: Jesus is killed by the Roman authorities, that he "died for our sins", that God raised him to heaven, and that some of his followers had Christophanies. Aside from God raising Jesus to heaven which we can't possibly verify historically, those are facts that historical-Jesus scholars generally accept. But more than half of the examples in the first list are disputed, as is whether Jesus is laid in an expensive tomb rather than buried dishonorably.

    So this makes me think that the crucifixion happening near the Passover is an expansion on the story: from a very early time, probably within months of Jesus dying, his followers associated his death as being sacrificial for their sins (1 Cor 15:3). Even by the time Paul is writing they have begun the practise of the Eucharist based on the Last Supper narrative; and both of those became intertwined and associated with Jewish Passover. The parallels are undeniable, and it's likely no coincidence, therefore I am proposing that Jesus' death occurring during Passover is likely an expansion to the original story.

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    tWebber tabibito's Avatar
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    Paul doesn't nominate the day on which Jesus was crucified, therefore the prior claim by the chronicler of Paul's statement regarding the crucifixion, that the date of crucifixion was Nisan 14 (or rather, the day of Preparation, the day before the Sabbath - {Luke 22:7 AND 23:54} ) can be disregarded?

    Nope, you're trying to shove water uphill with a pitchfork on this one.
    και εκζητησατε με και ευρησετε με οτι ζητησετε με εν ολη καρδία υμων

  3. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Aractus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Paul doesn't nominate the day on which Jesus was crucified, therefore the prior claim by the chronicler of Paul's statement regarding the crucifixion, that the date of crucifixion was Nisan 14 (or rather, the day of Preparation, the day before the Sabbath - {Luke 22:7 AND 23:54} ) can be disregarded?

    Nope, you're trying to shove water uphill with a pitchfork on this one.
    The reason why he doesn't nominate it is because he doesn't know. This theory I have proposed fits all the evidence:

    1. Paul never associates the Last Supper with the Passion.
    2. Paul never associates the Passover with the Passion.
    3. The narrative given in Acts 13 does not associate either of the above with the Passion either.
    And
    4. The synoptic gospels (all based on Mark) and John give different dates for the crucifixion.

    These facts lead me to conclude that the association with Passion narrative taking place during Passover is likely to be a later theological expansion of the story, and does not have a historical basis.

  5. Amen RhinestoneCowboy amen'd this post.
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    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tabibito View Post
    Paul doesn't nominate the day on which Jesus was crucified, therefore the prior claim by the chronicler of Paul's statement regarding the crucifixion, that the date of crucifixion was Nisan 14 (or rather, the day of Preparation, the day before the Sabbath - {Luke 22:7 AND 23:54} ) can be disregarded?

    Nope, you're trying to shove water uphill with a pitchfork on this one.
    Yeah, an argument from silence. Pretty weak.

  7. Amen Chrawnus amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Roy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aractus View Post
    The next earliest source is Acts 13:26-41, where the author records a full account of the Passion narrative, but it does not include anything about a Passover.
    Objection: 3 sentences is not in any way a "full account".

    Luke's very brief account leaves out so much about the crucifixion, including that it was a crucifixion, that the omission of it happening at Passover means nothing.
    Starlight: "In America a lot of tap-water is contaminated with lead or chemicals from fracking, because the right-wing crazies are anti-regulation."
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  9. Amen Teallaura, Chrawnus amen'd this post.
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    tWebber Teallaura's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy View Post
    Objection: 3 sentences is not in any way a "full account".

    Luke's very brief account leaves out so much about the crucifixion, including that it was a crucifixion, that the omission of it happening at Passover means nothing.
    Right.

    Luke 22:7 - 23 : The last supper account clearly mentions the Passover being celebrated.

    Luke 23:33 : explicitly states that Jesus was crucified

    Ara errs in taking only one passage and treating it, as you point out, as the full account. Luke doesn't actually leave out either the Passover or the Crucifixion - they just aren't mentioned in that part of Acts.

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    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    Right.

    Luke 22:7 - 23 : The last supper account clearly mentions the Passover being celebrated.

    Luke 23:33 : explicitly states that Jesus was crucified

    Ara errs in taking only one passage and treating it, as you point out, as the full account. Luke doesn't actually leave out either the Passover or the Crucifixion - they just aren't mentioned in that part of Acts.
    This guy lives for weird theories.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  12. Amen Adrift amen'd this post.
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    Oops....... mossrose's Avatar
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    Jesus actually gave up His life at the exact time the Passover lambs were being slaughtered at the temple.


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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    tWebber Faber's Avatar
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    This from the Babylonian Talmud...
    On the eve of the Passover Yeshu was hanged. For forty days before the execution took place, a herald went forth and cried, ‘He is going forth to be stoned because he has practised sorcery and enticed Israel to apostacy. Any one who can say anything in his favour, let him come forward and plead on his behalf.’ But since nothing was brought forward in his favour he was hanged on the eve of the Passover! – ‘Ulla retorted: Do you suppose that he was one for whom a defence could be made? Was he not a Meshith [enticer], concerning whom Scripture says, Neither spare, neither shalt thou conceal him? With Yeshu however it was different, for he was connected with the government [or royalty, i.e., influential]. (tractate Sanhedrin, folio 43a)
    Granted, there are some issues. Matthew, Mark and Luke portray the Last Supper as a Passover seder, but it took place either the day before, or (as I suspect), as early as Tuesday, three days before Passover eve. But there is strong evidence that there was another calendar at the time, one particularly used by the Essenes and found in a couple of fragments of the Dead Sea Scrolls. This alternative calendar held Passover Eve on Tuesday evenings perpetually.
    Last edited by Faber; 01-19-2018 at 04:20 PM.

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    tWebber Adrift's Avatar
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    Scripture Verse: 1 Corinthians 5:6

    Your boasting is not good. Don’t you know that a little yeast affects the whole batch of dough? 7 Clean out the old yeast so that you may be a new batch of dough—you are, in fact, without yeast. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. 8 So then, let us celebrate the festival, not with the old yeast, the yeast of vice and evil, but with the bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth.

    © Copyright Original Source



    Hmm...

  16. Amen DesertBerean amen'd this post.

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