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  • #31
    In other news, Chuck Schumer and the Democrats party just gave themselves a big black eye by forcing a government shutdown because Trump wouldn't cave on blanket amnesty.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ff-approaches/

    From a CNN poll: "56% overall say approving a budget agreement to avoid a shutdown is more important than continuing the DACA program, while just 34% choose DACA over a shutdown. Democrats break narrowly in favor of DACA — 49% say it’s more important vs. 42% who say avoiding a shutdown is the priority — while majorities of both Republicans (75%) and independents (57%) say avoiding a shutdown is more important."
    http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politi...aca/index.html
    Last edited by Mountain Man; 01-20-2018, 06:36 AM.
    Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
    But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
    Than a fool in the eyes of God


    From "Fools Gold" by Petra

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      A goodly percentage of liberals loathe the idea of a robust economy since that means people can be self-reliant and not turning to the government for a hand-out.
      If that were true, the economy would not be a major factor in many elections. I think your view of liberals is a bit skewed.
      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        GDP average under Obama was an anemic 1.5%. Under Trump it is more than double that.

        Record low unemployment rates for both blacks and Hispanics.

        Record high consumer confidence levels.


        But then what do you expect from the left?

        These were the same folks who insisted that a 1.5% GDP was the new normal, that the days of +3% were over because of a changing world economy.

        They were the ones who said manufacturing jobs in the U.S. were a thing of the past. No surprise there considering that we lost over a million such jobs under Obama (and George W. Bush as well). According to U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics manufacturing is now one of the fastest growing job sectors.

        They were the ones who proclaimed that the tax cut would only benefit the rich, that the average worker would see no benefit



        In less than a month after passage 81 companies have announced significant pay raises, bonuses and increases in benefits citing the tax cut as a reason. More are doing so.
        You're picking/choosing data, Rogue. GDP growth hit 3%+ multiple times in Obama's term. But yes, the general perspective was that it was likely to stay lower than it had in the past, partly because other priorities were being brought forward: ecology, consumer protection, etc. From what I can see, Trump is tossing pretty much all of those out in favor of money. As his son says, "the only color he sees is green." I don't think it's true, but money IS a major driver for Mr. Trump. As I've noted elsewhere - this myopic focus on what the right wants is his Achilles heel; he is doing exactly what the left did prior to 2016. I predict it will be his undoing in 2018 and 2020.
        The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

        I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
          In other news, Chuck Schumer and the Democrats party just gave themselves a big black eye by forcing a government shutdown because Trump wouldn't cave on blanket amnesty.

          http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ff-approaches/

          From a CNN poll: "56% overall say approving a budget agreement to avoid a shutdown is more important than continuing the DACA program, while just 34% choose DACA over a shutdown. Democrats break narrowly in favor of DACA — 49% say it’s more important vs. 42% who say avoiding a shutdown is the priority — while majorities of both Republicans (75%) and independents (57%) say avoiding a shutdown is more important."
          http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politi...aca/index.html
          The Republicans, however, will always be to blame.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
            The Republicans, however, will always be to blame.
            Not so sure about that. I think the Dems have stumbled badly on this one, and Trump is far more media savvy than anyone the Dems have. This could be the thing that reverses the tide to a wave in 2018.
            The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

            I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
              The Republicans, however, will always be to blame.
              Not if the CNN poll is accurate. Democrats are losers in the eyes of Republicans, and more importantly in the eyes of independents.
              Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
              But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
              Than a fool in the eyes of God


              From "Fools Gold" by Petra

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                Not if the CNN poll is accurate. Democrats are losers in the eyes of Republicans, and more importantly in the eyes of independents.
                You're reporting only part of the story, MM. For those interested in the full story, the article and a link to the poll can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politi...aca/index.html

                In a nutshell, the poll is conflicting. It indicates a narrow majority would blame Republicans and/or Trump for the shutdown, but at the same time a slim majority think DACA is not worth a shutdown. Mixed results at best.

                But I still think the Dems are making a mistake on this one. They should be fighting for DACA in an immigration bill context, along with the border wall, and keeping it out of the budget discussion, IMO. I think this is likely to hurt them in the long run.
                The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                  In other news, Chuck Schumer and the Democrats party just gave themselves a big black eye by forcing a government shutdown because Trump wouldn't cave on blanket amnesty.

                  http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...ff-approaches/

                  From a CNN poll: "56% overall say approving a budget agreement to avoid a shutdown is more important than continuing the DACA program, while just 34% choose DACA over a shutdown. Democrats break narrowly in favor of DACA — 49% say it’s more important vs. 42% who say avoiding a shutdown is the priority — while majorities of both Republicans (75%) and independents (57%) say avoiding a shutdown is more important."
                  http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/19/politi...aca/index.html
                  Of course, thanks to the DNC um, MSM (getting increasingly difficult to detect any distinction) coverage, the public blames the Republicans for the shutdown more than they do the Democrats.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                    If that were true, the economy would not be a major factor in many elections. I think your view of liberals is a bit skewed.
                    Actions speak louder than words. We had 8 years of an Administration that thought that receiving welfare and food stamps was better for the economy than people having a good job and trying to get people to believe that having a robust economy was a thing of the past and we need to get over it.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Actions speak louder than words. We had 8 years of an Administration that thought that receiving welfare and food stamps was better for the economy than people having a good job and trying to get people to believe that having a robust economy was a thing of the past and we need to get over it.
                      And that statement is, at best, very misleading, Rogue. The Obama administration made jobs and the economic recovery a priority, inflating the debt in an effort to counter the recession. During the first year of the first term of the Obama administration, so many jobs were lost to the recession that it took the next three years to break even. In the second term, job growth averaged over 223K per month, well above the 150K needed for a healthy economy, and driving unemployment to near record levels by the end of his term. It actually crossed into record territory, dropping .3 points to do so, after Trump took office and Trump took all the credit for himself. So unemployment sank 5.2 points under Obama, and 0.3 points under Trump and Trump is the great hero?

                      Talk about selectively accepting data.

                      Meanwhile, yes - food stamps, welfare, and other support systems for the unemployed greatly expanded under Obama, because people were out of work. It has not re-contracted anywhere near as much as it should have. That remains true, AFAIK, and Trump has been in office a full year now.
                      The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King

                      I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        You're picking/choosing data, Rogue. GDP growth hit 3%+ multiple times in Obama's term.
                        It did reach 3% a couple times but the cold hard truth is that it averaged a dismal 1.5%. Now under Trump it has remained above 3% going up each quarter with many economists predicting this latest quarter might be over 4%.

                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        But yes, the general perspective was that it was likely to stay lower than it had in the past, partly because other priorities were being brought forward: ecology, consumer protection, etc. From what I can see, Trump is tossing pretty much all of those out in favor of money.
                        The economy started roaring back to life the moment Trump was elected because of the anticipation of lowered taxes and to a lesser extent being relieved of burdensome regulations that served to do little more than to expand government and stifle economic growth.

                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        As his son says, "the only color he sees is green."
                        Nice quote mine there. The context was about racial relations. And as you well know Democrats used to say things like "it's the economy stupid" but now seem far more interested in increasing the size and scope of government control. They see it as a way of maintaining power.

                        When a company screws up, there are many courses of action including law suits, doing business with someone else and simply watching them flounder and go out of business. With government your stuck dealing with the only game in town. And they typically respond to their screw ups with seizing even more control.

                        Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                        I don't think it's true, but money IS a major driver for Mr. Trump. As I've noted elsewhere - this myopic focus on what the right wants is his Achilles heel; he is doing exactly what the left did prior to 2016. I predict it will be his undoing in 2018 and 2020.
                        Except it has resulted in a booming economy which benefits everyone.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by carpedm9587 View Post
                          You're picking/choosing data, Rogue. GDP growth hit 3%+ multiple times in Obama's term. But yes, the general perspective was that it was likely to stay lower than it had in the past, partly because other priorities were being brought forward: ecology, consumer protection, etc. From what I can see, Trump is tossing pretty much all of those out in favor of money. As his son says, "the only color he sees is green." I don't think it's true, but money IS a major driver for Mr. Trump. As I've noted elsewhere - this myopic focus on what the right wants is his Achilles heel; he is doing exactly what the left did prior to 2016. I predict it will be his undoing in 2018 and 2020.
                          It is true! Trump is deregulating everything to the detriment of the long term health of the environment, peoples health, and ultimately the economy. But, that is nothing new with Republican governance, they wreck it and then blame it on democrats when they have to come in and clean it up. Look at the economy that Obama inherited from Bush as compared to what Trump inherited from Obama. Now, of course, Trump is running around taking credit for how he's turned the economy around and his idiotic supporters are eating it up like sheep eat grass.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            It did reach 3% a couple times but the cold hard truth is that it averaged a dismal 1.5%. Now under Trump it has remained above 3% going up each quarter with many economists predicting this latest quarter might be over 4%.


                            The economy started roaring back to life the moment Trump was elected because of the anticipation of lowered taxes and to a lesser extent being relieved of burdensome regulations that served to do little more than to expand government and stifle economic growth.


                            Nice quote mine there. The context was about racial relations. And as you well know Democrats used to say things like "it's the economy stupid" but now seem far more interested in increasing the size and scope of government control. They see it as a way of maintaining power.

                            When a company screws up, there are many courses of action including law suits, doing business with someone else and simply watching them flounder and go out of business. With government your stuck dealing with the only game in town. And they typically respond to their screw ups with seizing even more control.


                            Except it has resulted in a booming economy which benefits everyone.
                            Now that gives rise to a thought. What would happen if government was put up for tender?
                            1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                            .
                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                            Scripture before Tradition:
                            but that won't prevent others from
                            taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                            of the right to call yourself Christian.

                            ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I expect by the end of his term the average market growth rate will have been about 2% per year.
                              Last edited by Leonhard; 01-21-2018, 04:29 AM.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by JimL View Post
                                It is true! Trump is deregulating everything to the detriment of the long term health of the environment....
                                Here it is again - Republicans want dirty water and air, so their own kids can choke and get sick......
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

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