Originally posted by Leonhard
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The Hypocrisy of Chuck Schumer
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View PostOk, this article isn't snopes or polifact but it says this claim is false: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/mattve...false-n2437246"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostWow. A politician that changes his story when the shoe is on the other foot?
I'm reasonably sure there are NO examples of any other politician doing this. The man should be tarred and feathered.
as well as Clinton and Obama.
The shutdown is apparently over DACA right? Well then why doesn't congress just make DACA legal? That is all Trump has been wanting. So the reason the government is shutdown is not really DACA, it is as a way to spurn Trump.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe shutdown is apparently over DACA right? Well then why doesn't congress just make DACA legal? That is all Trump has been wanting. So the reason the government is shutdown is not really DACA, it is as a way to spurn Trump.
Personally, I think the Dems are being foolish and may be squandering their 2018 opportunity. They should deal with the budget and immigration separately, and let Trump crap all over the Dreamers by refusing to agree to fund the wall. While it may hurt in the short run, the Dreamers are generally popular in the U.S. and the wall is not, so Trump and the Republicans would end up on the short end of that stick. Someone within the Dems is not a very good strategizer, IMO.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI am not impressed. I could dig out the same kind of tribe about McConnell (the SCOTUS vote), Trump (MANY issues), Ryan, and pretty much ANY politician who was on one side of an argument when their circumstances changed (i.e., in the majority and then in the minority; not in office and then in office; runnning for office and then in office, etc.). Politicians reversing themselves and speaking out of both sides of their mouth traces back to Ancient Greece. I'm mostly surprised that anyone here appears to be surprised.
As I understand it, every attempt to make DACA legal has hit a brick wall because Trump connects it to funding for his ridiculous wall. He agrees one moment on a plan, and then reverses himself the next. So far, no bill fixing the DACA problem has made it through the Republican majority or the threat of a Trump veto. Hence the current impasse.
Personally, I think the Dems are being foolish and may be squandering their 2018 opportunity. They should deal with the budget and immigration separately, and let Trump crap all over the Dreamers by refusing to agree to fund the wall. While it may hurt in the short run, the Dreamers are generally popular in the U.S. and the wall is not, so Trump and the Republicans would end up on the short end of that stick. Someone within the Dems is not a very good strategizer, IMO.
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI agree. Politicians love playing both sides of an issue, changing sides when it suits them. What that shows me is that the democrats really don't care about immigration or DACA. They are just using that as a hammer against Trump.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostIf Trump were all for open borders and DACA the democrats would be against it.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostIt shows nothing of the kind. It simply shows that politicians can and regularly do speak out of both sides of their mouth. The fact that McConnell did (with SCOTUS) exactly what he railed at Democrats for doing doesn't tell me "McConnell doesn't really care about SCOTUS, he just wanted to stick it to Democrats." It simply tells me McConnell will say what he thinks/feels at the time without regard for what he's previously said. Same for the Democrats.
I find these kinds of statements laregely useless. You're just fluffing your agenda. You say they would, I say they wouldn't, and neither of us can even begin to prove the case. It's pointless.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
Schumer is complaining that Trump didn't talk with him since the two met at the White House before the shutdown. But that's pretty much Sales 101. After you made your pitch, shut up. The first one to start talking afterwards generally loses.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThe fact that Schumer and Clinton and Obama all were saying that immigration law is important and DACA needs to be handled with law and not executive orders previously and NOW Shumer is saying the opposite does exactly that: show that he doesn't care about DACA or immigration law. He is just using it as a hammer against Trump.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostAnd I find your dismissals of what I say largely useless also.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostSchumer is complaining that Trump didn't talk with him since the two met at the White House before the shutdown. But that's pretty much Sales 101. After you made your pitch, shut up. The first one to start talking afterwards generally loses.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Seems like Dems won this round. Republicans gave them 6 years of CHIP funding and the promise of serious DACA negotiations in exchange for 3 weeks of government funding.
Dems can filibuster the budget again in 3 weeks if the DACA negotiations haven't progressed to their satisfaction, so they've lost no leverage."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSeems like Dems won this round. Republicans gave them 6 years of CHIP funding and the promise of serious DACA negotiations in exchange for 3 weeks of government funding.
Dems can filibuster the budget again in 3 weeks if the DACA negotiations haven't progressed to their satisfaction, so they've lost no leverage.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI'm not convinced. Trump and Republicans dominated the news cycle, Dems introduced something into the budget bill that was not budget-related, and polls suggest a government shutdown was not worth the DACA issue. I'm not sure the Dems prevailed on this one, and they may have harmed their 2018 chances....
I was talking purely from a policy standpoint - the Dems got a policy without ceding any policy ground."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostSeems like Dems won this round.
From the center-left Politico
And
From the reliably leftist New York Times
You should have seen the grim faces on CNN this afternoon (well, except for the rare Republican guest). One solemn host groused about how as a result Trump will be taking a "victory lap."
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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