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Jesus didn't want to save everyone?

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  • Jesus didn't want to save everyone?

    I recently came across something written by someone who has a divinity masters and is ordained.

    "And as soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be forgiven," (Mark 4:10-12).

    Jesus clearly tells his followers that the reason he is speaking in parables is so people will not be forgiven. Clearly, it is his intent that they be judged instead of forgiven.

    ------

    Is this guy right?

    Thanks.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
    I recently came across something written by someone who has a divinity masters and is ordained.
    A red flag in today's society.

    "And as soon as He was alone, His followers, along with the twelve, began asking Him about the parables. 11 And He was saying to them, “To you has been given the mystery of the kingdom of God; but those who are outside get everything in parables, 12 in order that while seeing, they may see and not perceive; and while hearing, they may hear and not understand lest they return and be forgiven," (Mark 4:10-12).

    Jesus clearly tells his followers that the reason he is speaking in parables is so people will not be forgiven. Clearly, it is his intent that they be judged instead of forgiven.

    ------

    Is this guy right?

    Thanks.
    No.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      A red flag in today's society.



      No.
      Why is he wrong?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
        Why is he wrong?
        I'd rather figure out why he believes himself to be right.

        That passage was before the mission given to the apostles to preach the good news to everyone. Until he had ascended Jesus was keeping a lid on things. I don't know why, but perhaps it was to prepare His Apostles and get them ready, perhaps it was a display of humility He wanted to teach them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
          Why is he wrong?
          Bad hermeneutics?
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Wasn't Jesus' divine identity supposed to be a secret until after the ascension? Otherwise Jesus would take all the honor like a infinite gravity well of holiness.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              Wasn't Jesus' divine identity supposed to be a secret until after the ascension? Otherwise Jesus would take all the honor like a infinite gravity well of holiness.
              One of my favorite commentators says that Jesus wanted his disciples to "hold off" on spreading the news because they didn't yet have the "whole story".
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                One of my favorite commentators says that Jesus wanted his disciples to "hold off" on spreading the news because they didn't yet have the "whole story".
                They didn't figure it out until after the Resurrection, right? Though they did figure out that something was going on when Jesus calmed the storm and treated it like a minor inconvenience. Though, I wonder how Jesus felt about His disciples becoming afraid of Him right after calming the storm? They probably should have let Jesus sleep. Maybe pray for the storm to stop? Except that might wake Jesus up also.
                If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                  They didn't figure it out until after the Resurrection, right?
                  Personally, I think it was after that. I can just imagine them sitting around the supper table, and one of them has an "aha moment", slaps his forehead, and says, "HEY, you remember when He broke the bread and passed it around, and said 'this is my body'? -- THAT's what He meant!"

                  Though they did figure out that something was going on when Jesus calmed the storm and treated it like a minor inconvenience. Though, I wonder how Jesus felt about His disciples becoming afraid of Him right after calming the storm? They probably should have let Jesus sleep. Maybe pray for the storm to stop? Except that might wake Jesus up also.
                  As I tell my Church members - we have the benefit of 2,000 years of hindsight - they, at the time, were "living history", and seeing it unfold bits and pieces at a time.
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                    Personally, I think it was after that. I can just imagine them sitting around the supper table, and one of them has an "aha moment", slaps his forehead, and says, "HEY, you remember when He broke the bread and passed it around, and said 'this is my body'? -- THAT's what He meant!"



                    As I tell my Church members - we have the benefit of 2,000 years of hindsight - they, at the time, were "living history", and seeing it unfold bits and pieces at a time.
                    We also have the Holy Spirit, which the disciples didn't have until after Pentecost.


                    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                      We also have the Holy Spirit, which the disciples didn't have until after Pentecost.
                      And they had Jesus.
                      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                        We also have the Holy Spirit, which the disciples didn't have until after Pentecost.
                        And the written Word!
                        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                          And the written Word!
                          And nearly(can't say 2000 years until the 2030's) 2000 years of brothers and sisters discussing things! And there's still stuff we may want to ask Jesus about when we see Him.
                          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            2 Peter 3:8-10New International Version (NIV)

                            8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christian3 View Post
                              Jesus clearly tells his followers that the reason he is speaking in parables is so people will not be forgiven. Clearly, it is his intent that they be judged instead of forgiven.
                              Yes, that is his intent. Note that this is a quote from Isaiah, and Isaiah asks "for how long?"

                              “Render the hearts of this people insensitive,
                              Their ears dull,
                              And their eyes dim,
                              Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
                              Hear with their ears,
                              Understand with their hearts,
                              And return and be healed.”

                              Then I said, “Lord, how long?” And He answered,
                              “Until cities are devastated and without inhabitant,
                              Houses are without people
                              And the land is utterly desolate, the LORD has removed men far away,
                              And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land." (Is 6:10–12)

                              So we may ask how long Jesus had in mind, that this judgment would persist.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment

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