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NATO ally Turkey bombs Christian Kurds

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  • #1

    NATO ally Turkey bombs Christian Kurds

    Christian churches were among the Kurds begging for international assistance to stop Turkey's assault on a northern Syrian city to clear it of Kurdish forces that have been fighting ISIS.

    "[Turkish forces began bombing the city of Afrin from the air on Saturday and sent in ground troops on Sunday. President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan said Sunday that “Operation Olive Branch" against the Kurdish People’s Protection Units (YPG) "will be resolved" and "there will be no step back" as he claims the Kurds are terrorists.

    "We have discussed it with the Russians and we have an agreement with them,” Erdoğan said in Ankara.

    “The U.S. is urging that the operation should not last too long and should be conducted within a certain time frame. I ask the U.S.: Does your operation in Afghanistan, which you launched more than 10 years ago, have a certain time frame? When will it be completed? You are also still in Iraq, aren’t you? Do these kind of operations have a certain time frame?” he added.

    In a joint statement Saturday, the Kurdish Churches in Afrin and Kobane confirmed "we are under attack by Turkey."

    "The lives of our women and children are in danger. The city of Afrin is being bombarded by Turkish airstrikes. We are asking for intervention, and protection against the violent attacks which are being levied against us at the moment," the statement continued.

    "Many lives are in mortal danger. We are requesting aid and assistance. We are unable to protect ourselves or our families against these attacks, neither are we able to offer assistance or shelter to the innocents. Please help us."]"

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...lease-help-us/
    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
    “not all there” - you know who you are
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Gotta feel bad for the Kurds. They seem to be the one nice / Western / not crazy group in the region. Yet they continue to be victimised because they have no country of their own (Turkey is desperate for them not to be allowed to have a country because a small part of Turkey has Kurds and would break off to become part of Kurdistan) and are an oppressed minority group in the 4 or so basket-case Middle Eastern countries they're spread across.

    And the US can't openly help the Kurds because it's allied with Turkey. A lot of the wider region's problems stem from the fact that the US is allied with 3 of the worst actors in the region (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel).
    "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
    "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
    "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
      Gotta feel bad for the Kurds. They seem to be the one nice / Western / not crazy group in the region. Yet they continue to be victimised because they have no country of their own (Turkey is desperate for them not to be allowed to have a country because a small part of Turkey has Kurds and would break off to become part of Kurdistan) and are an oppressed minority group in the 4 or so basket-case Middle Eastern countries they're spread across.
      His highness graces us with his ridiculously biased "analysis"...

      The Kurds have been demanding independence from Turkey and Syria for decades - often violently. The conflict between the sides has been going on for almost as long. Atrocities have been committed by all sides. Don't act like the Kurds are innocent "good guys"

      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ing-opponents/
      https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ru/...ar-crimes.html
      https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/evidenc...ings-1.2239421


      And the US can't openly help the Kurds because it's allied with Turkey.
      The US has been helping the Kurds for years. Openly. We had 3 Kurdish logistics soldiers deploy to the post I work at just last week.

      A lot of the wider region's problems stem from the fact that the US is allied with 3 of the worst actors in the region (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, and Israel).
      You don't know anything about who the "worst actors" are in the region. Your imbecility is bordering on legendary...
      That's what
      - She

      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
      - Stephen R. Donaldson

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
        His highness graces us with his ridiculously biased "analysis"
        What biases am I suffering from exactly? I live in a country far away from others, that is peaceful and has minimal troops in the region. I don't have a dog in the fight. Whereas you, well... ...you literally work for the military of a country that can't seem to stop invading people and is currently drone-striking about 8 different countries and can't seem to work out who its middle eastern allies are or aren't on any given day.

        The Kurds have been demanding independence from Turkey and Syria for decades
        Seems reasonable.

        Don't act like the Kurds are innocent "good guys"

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...ing-opponents/
        https://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/ru/...ar-crimes.html
        https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/evidenc...ings-1.2239421
        It's disappointing to see those accusations, as the coverage of the Kurds I heard over the years from a variety of sources has been generally very positive (as your second link itself notes).

        The US has been helping the Kurds for years. Openly.
        The Obama administration considered openly helping the Kurds and decided not to. Trump's decision to help the Kurds last year was actually one of the only things he's done as President that I agreed with.

        You don't know anything about who the "worst actors" are in the region.
        Well I did leave the US off the list, sorry for my oversight there.

        Your imbecility is bordering on legendary...
        We (various atheists posting here) did kind of settle on you as TWeb's stupidest poster in informal discussions of the subject. It was a tough challenge, but I think you slightly edged out RumTumTugger by a whisker.
        "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
        "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
        "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

        Comment

        • #5
          Originally posted by Starlight View Post
          What biases am I suffering from exactly?
          You're a religious fanatic with an axe to grind. I think we went over this already, nobody's buying your "i'm not biased" shtick.
          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
            You're a religious fanatic with an axe to grind.
            Imagining that were true, how would it affect my comments in this thread about the Kurds? They are majority-Muslim, so does my alleged religious fanaticism (I'm assuming you mean pro-atheism and anti-religion) mean I hate them? FF's OP was about Christian Churches among the Kurds being bombed... does your imagined 'atheist fanaticism' on my part mean I want them bombed?
            "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
            "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
            "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

            Comment

            • #7
              Churches would seem to give the Turks two reasons to attack, not one; not just ethnic difference, but religious difference as well.
              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
              sigpic
              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                Imagining that were true, how would it affect my comments in this thread about the Kurds?
                You're using them as a springboard to do what you really want to do, which is complain about Israel/America.
                "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by Darth Executor View Post
                  You're using them as a springboard to do what you really want to do, which is complain about Israel/America.
                  I don't give 2 figs about Israel, but I'll grant you I enjoy complaining about America, and I do that a lot because this is an American-centric forum and because the US military's size and actions are unconscionable and morally infensible:



                  The US's 'defense' (i.e. attack) force is deployed around the world at an absurd rate - at any given time the US has about 100 active missions in Africa alone, it is drone striking 8 middle eastern countries, has ~1000 military bases worldwide, and is rated in international polls as the biggest threat to world peace.
                  "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                  "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                  "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    “[British men are among a group of international volunteers preparing to fight against Turkish-led forces in north-west Syria, the BBC understands.

                    They have joined the Kurdish militia, the YPG, to fight the Turkish offensive on the Kurdish-held enclave of Afrin.

                    Among the volunteers is a 24-year-old British-Chinese fighter from Manchester, known as Huang Lei.

                    Lei, who originally travelled to Syria in 2015 to battle against IS, told the BBC it was his "duty" to fight.

                    The YPG has released a video showing an international group of volunteers who previously fought in Syria against so-called Islamic State.

                    Lei has told the BBC that there are two other Britons with him among the group, although they have chosen to remain anonymous.]”

                    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42799284
                    “I think God, in creating man, somewhat overestimated his ability.” ― Oscar Wilde
                    “And if there were a God, I think it very unlikely that He would have such an uneasy vanity as to be offended by those who doubt His existence” ― Bertrand Russell
                    “not all there” - you know who you are

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      I don't give 2 figs about Israel, but I'll grant you I enjoy complaining about America, and I do that a lot because this is an American-centric forum and because the US military's size and actions are unconscionable and morally infensible:

                      You've been taken to task before regarding that graphic. You keep trotting it out, though.
                      The US's 'defense' (i.e. attack) force is deployed around the world at an absurd rate - at any given time the US has about 100 active missions in Africa alone,
                      Nice spin. None of those missions are "attacking" - they're all providing advice to local governments. It's also a snapshot in time; your claim of "at any given time" is more than the evidence given in the article will bear. All of them combined take about 1700 troops - Oh, the horror!
                      it is drone striking 8 middle eastern countries, has ~1000 military bases worldwide, and is rated in international polls as the biggest threat to world peace.
                      <unsupported assertion><unsupported assertion><pollaganda>

                      Nice.
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        What biases am I suffering from exactly?
                        You hate the US military. And anything a Conservative does in relation to it.

                        I live in a country far away from others, that is peaceful and has minimal troops in the region.
                        Which means when the crap hits the fan, your country will be worthless in a fight.

                        I don't have a dog in the fight. Whereas you, well... ...you literally work for the military of a country that can't seem to stop invading people and is currently drone-striking about 8 different countries and can't seem to work out who its middle eastern allies are or aren't on any given day.
                        We have no friends. We know that. We have alliances that benefit us when we want them, but we trust not a single one of them. Nor do they really trust each other. We deal with who we need to on a situational basis.

                        Seems reasonable.
                        That's debatable.


                        It's disappointing to see those accusations, as the coverage of the Kurds I heard over the years from a variety of sources has been generally very positive (as your second link itself notes).
                        They were seen as the victims of Saddam Hussein for a long time. It's easy to paint yourself as the "good guys" when you are being attacked. But there are no real "good guys" in that region. But there are some worse than others, like Somalia, Iran, and the PLO.

                        The Obama administration considered openly helping the Kurds and decided not to.
                        Uh, not true... http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...051306148.html

                        Trump's decision to help the Kurds last year was actually one of the only things he's done as President that I agreed with.
                        We've aided them for decades.

                        Well I did leave the US off the list, sorry for my oversight there.
                        I'd question your geography skills if you included us in countries in the area...

                        We (various atheists posting here) did kind of settle on you as TWeb's stupidest poster in informal discussions of the subject.
                        Again, you couldn't hold my jock strap, junior.

                        It was a tough challenge, but I think you slightly edged out RumTumTugger by a whisker.
                        And considering the crowd involved in the decision are a bunch of rabid idiots, I'll just take you lot's summation of my intelligence with a grain of salt. I typically don't get too involved in things I don't know about. But when Google-fu warriors like you put your foot into your mouth on subjects I get paid a lot of money to know, then I will gladly slap you down like the pretend smart ass you think you are. Not that I am offering or anything, so don't get all excited...
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        - Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          You've been taken to task before regarding that graphic.
                          It withstood criticism previously which gives me more confidence in reposting it. The major criticism was that 2008 isn't a very recent year to be showing numbers from, however further research revealed the numbers are not significantly different now, and IMO the better readability of that graph compared to ones with more recent years makes it superior.


                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Uh, not true... http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...051306148.html
                          That is actually quite interesting, thanks for the correction.
                          "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
                          "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
                          "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                            It withstood criticism previously which gives me more confidence in reposting it. The major criticism was that 2008 isn't a very recent year to be showing numbers from, however further research revealed the numbers are not significantly different now, and IMO the better readability of that graph compared to ones with more recent years makes it superior.
                            You mean, you handwaved away criticism previously. The numbers are significantly different now, and the US number continues to include things which would fall under different categories in other countries, like the Coast Guard.
                            Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                            Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                            sigpic
                            I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                              What biases am I suffering from exactly? I live in a country far away from others, that is peaceful and has minimal troops in the region. I don't have a dog in the fight.
                              You are like sheltered, safe kid, naive about real world to point of delusion. 'Why spend so much on military?' 'On defense against terrorist??'
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment

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