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Thread: Is this guy left wing or right wing?

  1. #21
    Troll Magnet Sparko's Avatar
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    Doesn't matter if Hitler was left or right or fascist or libertarian. He was evil and evil crosses all boundaries.

  2. Amen Leonhard amen'd this post.
  3. #22
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starlight View Post
    This is one reason I prefer to use a 2d-political chart like the kind PoliticalCompass.org uses:



    Hitler and Stalin differed in their economic policies, but not in the dictatorial and authoritarian nature of their rule.

    Loosely speaking most modern politics tends to occur roughly along the diagonal from bottom left to top right of that chart, and so what we think of as the "left" today is the bottom left quadrant while the "right" is the top right quadrant. Relatively little modern politics occurs in either the top left (dictatorial communism) or the bottom right (ideological libertarianism). The chart is helpful to think about in terms of concentration of power - is power to make decisions concentrated in the hands of a few (right-wing) or distributed among many or all people (left-wing)? The horizontal axis is economic power, the vertical axis is political and social power.
    Ironically, it's the progressives (here, at any rate) who favor more and more power concentrated in the federal government, who favor totalitarian ideas like "hate speech" codes and forcing not simply tolerance, but celebration of ideas others find morally repugnant. They celebrated Obama ruling with his pen and a phone. Antifa, again ironically, uses the same methods fascism did before it came to power.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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  4. #23
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    Ironically, it's the progressives (here, at any rate) who favor more and more power concentrated in the federal government, who favor totalitarian ideas like "hate speech" codes and forcing not simply tolerance, but celebration of ideas others find morally repugnant. They celebrated Obama ruling with his pen and a phone. Antifa, again ironically, uses the same methods fascism did before it came to power.
    I find this a little ironic. I find that each side favors power concentrated in the federal government, as long as it is power related to things they find important. The right wants the federal government to enact/enforce laws that reflect their moral codes (e.g. abortion, gay rights), the left want the government to enact/enforce laws that reflect theirs (protections against abuse, protection of the environment, etc.). Obama enacted things by pen he could not get through Congress - Trump has done the same thing, and to a greater degree. There have been more EOs under Trump than there were under Obama for a like period, and they have dealt with many of the same issues. But the right is mum about those. Both Antifa and the White Supremacist/Neo Nazi movements use fascist strategies.

    Your post is just a bit skewed, IMO.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  5. Amen Starlight amen'd this post.
  6. #24
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    enacted things by pen he could not get through Congress - Trump has done the same thing, and to a greater degree. There have been more EOs under Trump than there were under Obama for a like period, and they have dealt with many of the same issues. But the right is mum about those.
    Could you start a new thread detailing some of these EOs?

    Both Antifa and the White Supremacist/Neo Nazi movements use fascist strategies.

    Your post is just a bit skewed, IMO.
    Not true, most white supremacists are pretty peaceful and only fight when attacked. And they don't have institutional support while Antifas are routinely covered by Democrats.
    "But Lord, in your name did we not vote Democrat, and in your name did we not attend many Bernie rallies?" ~ Zymologist

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  7. #25
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teallaura View Post
    I agree the 2d is a better methodology, but not sure I'd accept that one for this debate.

    Also, a chart is only as good as the data plugged into it - and it's really hard to define political bent with survey data - historical data is easy to skew inadvertently.
    I've found that most attempts to distill complex political opinions down to a single point on a graph to be largely worthless. I took one political quiz that pegged me as just slightly right of center, and slightly libertarian. I found this result amusing.

  8. #26
    Evolution is God's ID rogue06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mountain Man View Post
    I've found that most attempts to distill complex political opinions down to a single point on a graph to be largely worthless. I took one political quiz that pegged me as just slightly right of center, and slightly libertarian. I found this result amusing.
    Last month there was a discussion of various political quizzes and I noted how the "world's smallest political quiz" placed me well into the libertarian camp (which I am) but also just slightly left of center causing this reaction from carp:

    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    You just made me snort coffee up my nose...

    I'm always still in trouble again

  9. #27
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Not true, most white supremacists are pretty peaceful and only fight when attacked. And they don't have institutional support while Antifas are routinely covered by Democrats.
    White supremacists are pretty peaceful? I suggest you spend time reviewing this embedded reporter with the Charlotsville White Nationalists. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIrcB1sAN8I). These are the people you are defending.

    And the completel list of Trumps EOs can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...y_Donald_Trump
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-28-2018 at 07:40 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  10. #28
    Must...have...caffeine One Bad Pig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I find this a little ironic. I find that each side favors power concentrated in the federal government, as long as it is power related to things they find important. The right wants the federal government to enact/enforce laws that reflect their moral codes (e.g. abortion, gay rights), the left want the government to enact/enforce laws that reflect theirs (protections against abuse, protection of the environment, etc.).
    I agree that the Republican party is also guilty of this to some extent - hence the growth of the Libertarian Party.
    Obama enacted things by pen he could not get through Congress - Trump has done the same thing, and to a greater degree. There have been more EOs under Trump than there were under Obama for a like period, and they have dealt with many of the same issues. But the right is mum about those.
    What do you consider "like period"? There's been a change in the party in power; it's rather more likely than not the initial period is going to have a greater amount of change, as the new authority rolls back what it can of the previous regime.
    Both Antifa and the White Supremacist/Neo Nazi movements use fascist strategies.

    Your post is just a bit skewed, IMO.
    You're not going to find me defending white supremacists or Neo Nazis. It is sort of expected that they'd use such. Nice attempt at deflection, tho.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

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  11. #29
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
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    The World's Smallest Political Quiz seems designed to trick people who know little about politics into thinking they're libertarians, even though they expressly deny this claim on their website. One of the questions asks about whether we should shrink government by 50%, and people who don't know better are going to think "oh, sure, that sounds good" without realizing what this would actually entail. Nobody should be able to make this proposal without actually outlining what they would cut.
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

  12. Amen Teallaura amen'd this post.
  13. #30
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    I agree that the Republican party is also guilty of this to some extent - hence the growth of the Libertarian Party.

    What do you consider "like period"? There's been a change in the party in power; it's rather more likely than not the initial period is going to have a greater amount of change, as the new authority rolls back what it can of the previous regime.
    Yes, there are usually more EOs at the start of a presidency. Still, Trump is outpacing the last three presidents (http://www.businessinsider.com/how-m...on-bush-2017-8). Meanwhile, Obama signed fewer executive orders per year than any president in the last 120 years, yet he is constantly dinged for "ruling by pen." In fact, the complaint is not about the fact that he "ruled by pen" but rather that he issued EOs that Republicans didn't WANT him to issue. Trump is doing what Republicans want, so the EOs are OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by One Bad Pig View Post
    You're not going to find me defending white supremacists or Neo Nazis. It is sort of expected that they'd use such. Nice attempt at deflection, tho.
    I have no idea what you think I am deflecting from. The statement that ANTIFA uses fascist techniques is accurate - but incomplete. Extremists tend to use fascist techniques - at both ends of the political spectrum.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  14. Amen Starlight amen'd this post.

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