God hardened Pharaoh's heart

[lee_merrill]

Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them..." (Ex 10:1)

Does God harden people's hearts so they will not repent?

Earlier we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart:

"But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 8:32)

But was this God's doing also? Even earlier, we read:

"But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said." (Ex 8:15)

What had the Lord said?

"You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall speak to Pharaoh that he let the sons of Israel go out of his land. But that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. When Pharaoh does not listen to you, then I will lay My hand on Egypt and bring out My hosts, My people the sons of Israel, from the land of Egypt by great judgments." (Ex 7:2-4)

So even Pharaoh hardening his heart was God's doing, and God certainly hardened Pharaoh's heart directly, later on.

Blessings,
Lee

[Rushing Jaws]

Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them..." (Ex 10:1)

Does God harden people's hearts so they will not repent?

Earlier we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart:

"But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 8:32)

But was this God's doing also? Even earlier, we read:

"But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said." (Ex 8:15)

What had the Lord said?

"You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall speak to Pharaoh that he let the sons of Israel go out of his land. But that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. When Pharaoh does not listen to you, then I will lay My hand on Egypt and bring out My hosts, My people the sons of Israel, from the land of Egypt by great judgments." (Ex 7:2-4)

So even Pharaoh hardening his heart was God's doing, and God certainly hardened Pharaoh's heart directly, later on.

Blessings,
Lee

The same result is the action of both God and man - though in utterly different ways. A bit as the Crucifixion is the action both of the Righteous God, and of unrighteous men. It seems to be very unlike the motion that domino A exerts on domino B when A falls on B to make B fall on C.

The action of God on man is more like the action a storyteller imparts to his invented characters; the two agents are incommensurable. Strictly speaking, the human storyteller is as made-up as his characters; he and they derive their life from God.

[Teallaura]

I think God gave Pharaoh what he wanted - God stepped in when a normal person would have faltered - He gave Pharaoh the strength he needed to do what he wanted.

[Darth Executor]

i always leaned towards it not being literal, but Pharaoh's heart getting hard because of God's actions. similar to expressions like "he makes me so mad!"

[Teallaura]

i always leaned towards it not being literal, but Pharaoh's heart getting hard because of God's actions. similar to expressions like "he makes me so mad!"

Hmm, that's not a bad point.

[Littlejoe]

Then the Lord said to Moses, "Go to Pharaoh, for I have hardened his heart and the heart of his servants, that I may perform these signs of Mine among them..." (Ex 10:1)

Does God harden people's hearts so they will not repent?

Earlier we read that Pharaoh hardened his heart:

"But Pharaoh hardened his heart this time also, and he did not let the people go." (Ex 8:32)

But was this God's doing also? Even earlier, we read:

"But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and did not listen to them, as the Lord had said." (Ex 8:15)

What had the Lord said?

"You shall speak all that I command you, and your brother Aaron shall speak to Pharaoh that he let the sons of Israel go out of his land. But that I may multiply My signs and My wonders in the land of Egypt. When Pharaoh does not listen to you, then I will lay My hand on Egypt and bring out My hosts, My people the sons of Israel, from the land of Egypt by great judgments." (Ex 7:2-4)

So even Pharaoh hardening his heart was God's doing, and God certainly hardened Pharaoh's heart directly, later on.

Blessings,
Lee

[Sparko]

God knows all. He knew that when Moses came to him and demanded his people be let go that the Pharaoh would be stubborn and not let them go. The more Moses demanded and did miracles, the more stubborn Pharaoh got. God knew that would happen, but it had to happen that way. So by having Moses do what he did, the Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response. God saying "I will harden his heart" is just referencing the fact that God knew that the actions he and Moses would take would cause the Pharaoh to harden his heart. It wasn't a direct action.

[lee_merrill]

The action of God on man is more like the action a storyteller imparts to his invented characters; the two agents are incommensurable.

Or a potter and the clay (Isa. 29:16, Jer. 18:5, Rom. 9:21).

I think God gave Pharaoh what he wanted - God stepped in when a normal person would have faltered - He gave Pharaoh the strength he needed to do what he wanted.

i always leaned towards it not being literal, but Pharaoh's heart getting hard because of God's actions. similar to expressions like "he makes me so mad!"

Though that would not fit the potter and clay analogy, above.

Blessings,
Lee

[lee_merrill]

I agree.

So by having Moses do what he did, the Pharaoh hardened his own heart in response. God saying "I will harden his heart" is just referencing the fact that God knew that the actions he and Moses would take would cause the Pharaoh to harden his heart. It wasn't a direct action.

This would again not fit the model of the potter and clay (Isa. 29:16, Jer. 18:5, Rom. 9:21).

Blessings,
Lee

[Teallaura]

Reread it. Pharaoh makes the decision multiple times before God hardens his heart.

[lee_merrill]

Reread it. Pharaoh makes the decision multiple times before God hardens his heart.

Yes, but that's what I tried to address in my opening post, Pharaoh's decision was because of God's decision.

Blessings,
Lee

[Littlejoe]

This would again not fit the model of the potter and clay (Isa. 29:16, Jer. 18:5, Rom. 9:21).

Blessings,
Lee

while their hearts are far from me,
and their fear of me is a commandment taught by men,
14 therefore, behold, I will again
do wonderful things with this people,
with wonder upon wonder;
and if that nation I warned repents of its evil, then I will relent and not inflict on it the disaster I had planned. And if at another time I announce that a nation or kingdom is to be built up and planted,

[37818]

Clay left out on its own will harden. The potter placing the clay in a kiln to harden it.

[lee_merrill]

Note the statement "he who formed it", though. Apparently in back of all our planning, and doing, and choosing is God the potter, forming us. Did Pharaoh's choices have a cause? Apparently they did, see my opening post.

Not only this passage, but in fact the other OT passages in which this type of potter-clay illustration is used (Isa. 45:1-13; 64:4-8; Jer. 18:1-10) all refer to people who are under judgment for their own false worship and disregard of God and His Law, and either imply or specifically offer restoration to those who repent (e.g., Isa. 29:17-19; 45:14, 22; 64:9-12).

But does repentance have a cause in God? Apparently so:

"Why, Lord, do you make us wander from your ways
and harden our hearts so we do not revere you?" (Is 63:17)

God has sovereignly chosen what he will do regarding the clay, in that he has chosen to respond to the clay according to its repentance or lack of repentance.

[OU812]

Though that would not fit the potter and clay analogy, above.

Blessings,
Lee

Maybe that's the problem with being to wedded to an analogy to the exclusion of all else..