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Thread: God hardened Pharaoh's heart

  1. #21
    tWebber Darth Executor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee_merrill View Post
    Yes, but is God behind Pharaoh hardening his heart? See my opening post...
    Yes, just not in the sense that He magically (for lack of a better word) induced Pharaoh's heart to harden.
    "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

    There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

  2. #22
    tWebber lee_merrill's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post
    Yes, just not in the sense that He magically (for lack of a better word) induced Pharaoh's heart to harden.
    Indeed, God may have very well used means to bring about this result...

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  3. #23
    Professor and Chaplain Littlejoe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KingsGambit View Post
    Trying to look for hints of synergistic thinking simply doesn't fit the context of Romans 9, whether or not one interprets it to refer to individual election (as opposed to corporate election).
    After looking at it further...I disagree with you. The whole context is dealing exactly with that issue. The question Paul is asking and answering is found in verse 6...has the Word of God failed? Answer is:
    God's salvation is for all those that respond in faith. Reread Rom. 9:30 - 32. The gentiles obtain righteousness by faith. Jews miss it by trying to obtain it by the Law. If the way you respond to God is not synergistic then, I'm not sure what is.
    "What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer

    "... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen

  4. Amen The Remonstrant, OU812, alaskazimm amen'd this post.
  5. #24
    tWebber
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlejoe View Post
    After looking at it further...I disagree with you. The whole context is dealing exactly with that issue. The question Paul is asking and answering is found in verse 6...has the Word of God failed? Answer is:
    God's salvation is for all those that respond in faith. Reread Rom. 9:30 - 32. The gentiles obtain righteousness by faith. Jews miss it by trying to obtain it by the Law. If the way you respond to God is not synergistic then, I'm not sure what is.
    Yep, exactly. Reading monergism into Romans 9 not only divorces it of its immediate context - it also divorces it from the complete textual context of Romans as a whole (as well as Paul's other writings).

    I believe the problem comes with what I call the 'Law of First Mention'. The problem is that when most people hear the idea of the 'potter and the clay' or 'predestination', etc. they hear it interpreted through the lens of a particular theology (Calvinism), as opposed to the council of scripture as a whole and the understanding at the time of the writings. The Law of First Mention means that the first time you encounter something (or are taught something) - it will shape the way you see things from now on.

    When you dig down beyond the textual context into the cultural context and understanding, you will see that the only thing resembling that sort of theology was embedded in gnostic teaching regarding fate. Not surprisingly, the early church vehemently opposed anything even remotely resembling this sort of teaching.

  6. Amen alaskazimm, Teallaura, OU812 amen'd this post.

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