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Don't Expect Trump to Testify Anytime Soon

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  • Don't Expect Trump to Testify Anytime Soon

    From the Lawfare blog*
    Testimony under oath about the obstruction charges would be a bloodbath for Trump. The president has told serial lies about his conversations with Comey, whose account is in any case backed by contemporaneous evidence and, it would appear, the testimony of Trump-camp insiders such as Reince Priebus.

    Mueller’s team will meticulously serve up each of those lies back to Trump, forcing him either to disavow them (adding to the obstruction case) or recommit to them (adding perjury counts to Mueller’s ledger). And Trump is arrogant and easily goaded, making him a prosecutor’s dream.

    The president's competency issues begin with himself, but extend outward indefinitely. What was it, five or six major law firms that refused to counsel him on the Mueller case before he found a taker. If he's a prosecutor's dream, he's a defense attorney's nightmare. He won't listen, and he won't shut up.

    Tweet, tweet.

    From the increasingly unhinged attacks on the FBI in general to Mueller in particular ranging from the recused-for-cause Nunes memo to secret society conspiracy theories, it's clear his closest supporters aren't merely spooked, they're terrified. The most recent Times bombshell can't be read as anything other than a plea for help from deep within the administration, and likely from McGahn's office itself. They think he's strapped on the vest and ready to detonate.
    And there would be a number of options for Trump to upend the sandbox. He could discharge Mueller and face the firestorm. He could take the Fifth Amendment but posture as if he were doing it only out of contempt for the probe. He could perhaps agree to testify but basically filibuster and treat the whole proceeding as a “witch hunt” kangaroo court. That might force the unseemly prospect of Mueller’s bringing a contempt proceeding against him, which would raise new unresolved legal issues. Even a “wag the dog” strategy could not be counted as off the table.

    Partisans are going to run for the mattresses on one side, and cheer the bloodbath on the other, but the wider perspective sees every president as ephemeral. It's the presidency itself that needs protection now.


    * Taking the piglet's implied criticism of shortened url's to heart.

  • #2
    Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
    The most recent Times bombshell can't be read as anything other than a plea for help from deep within the administration, and likely from McGahn's office itself.
    Counsel Quietly Trying to Corral Trump While Pushing G.O.P.’s Agenda
    Jack Goldsmith, a Harvard Law School professor and a former top Justice Department official in the George W. Bush administration, wrote last year on the Lawfare blog that Mr. McGahn was either incompetent or ineffective — giving bad advice, or advice that his client ignored. Mr. Goldsmith said on Friday that there were too many unanswered questions about what happened in June to judge what it means for Mr. McGahn.

    He might “have acted to protect the president, or himself, or both, from legal trouble,” Mr. Goldsmith said. “It’s hard to know, but the fact that McGahn has stayed in office during the subsequent seven months implies that there has not been a fundamental breach between the two men, unless perhaps this report signals one.”

    Immediate confirmation that I'm not alone in thinking it came from McGahn.

    Comment


    • #3
      It's certainly wild.

      The Mueller probe, and ongoing speculation about how Trump might respond to it, seems to me to demonstrate pretty clearly that the US did not respond to the Nixon-era scandals sufficiently well by properly regulating this process. Likewise the whole impeachment process appears poorly thought out in the sense that a congress is hardly going to impeach their own party's president.

      Honestly, at this stage I doubt anyone knows whether Trump will testify or not, probably including Trump himself. The man will probably make a deal to testify and then back out of it on the day, and then be inspired by a Fox & Friends segment to go testify and then he'll Tweet all about it before he does it, and then his lawyers will talk him out of it again. I'd say it's 50/50 whether he ends up testifying in any capacity versus not.
      "I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
      "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
      "[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein

      Comment


      • #4
        Sound like Lady Grey is writing 50 Shades level fanfiction, sad!

        Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
        The most recent Times bombshell can't be read as anything other than a plea for help from deep within the administration, and likely from McGahn's office itself. They think he's strapped on the vest and ready to detonate.

        And there would be a number of options for Trump to upend the sandbox. He could discharge Mueller and face the firestorm.
        President Donald J. Trump faced 'how dare he fire Comey' fire and fury, made it through fine. If Trump fires Mueller, libs rage like last time, then what?
        Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

        Comment


        • #5
          From the Times editorial board
          At least three important questions remain. First, why is this incident coming to light only now? Mr. Trump’s desire to get rid of the special counsel was reported months ago, as was his advisers’ efforts to talk him down from such a catastrophic move, but both the president and the White House have consistently denied taking any steps in that direction. Last August, Mr. Trump was asked by reporters whether he had considered firing Mr. Mueller. “I haven’t given it any thought,” he said.

          Perhaps people close to the president are trying to ensure that when he testifies before Mr. Mueller, as he has said he would “love to” do, he doesn’t insist on his alternative facts and put himself at risk of a perjury charge. Or perhaps, as the investigation closes in on the White House, there is a growing fear that the president is liable to act rashly, especially as he is being goaded daily by congressional Republicans and the right-wing media machine.

          "Act rashly."

          Comment


          • #6
            You're ignoring the elephant in room: Trump will never testify because Mueller has nothing on him with which to compel his testimony.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
              there is a growing fear that the president is liable to act rashly, especially as he is being goaded daily by congressional Republicans and the right-wing media machine.
              NYT board spinning fantasy world for libs again!! Trump walked into fire and fury of libs and out safely, many times! Who is worried??
              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                From the Times editorial board
                At least three important questions remain. First, why is this incident coming to light only now? Mr. Trump’s desire to get rid of the special counsel was reported months ago, as was his advisers’ efforts to talk him down from such a catastrophic move, but both the president and the White House have consistently denied taking any steps in that direction. Last August, Mr. Trump was asked by reporters whether he had considered firing Mr. Mueller. “I haven’t given it any thought,” he said.

                Perhaps people close to the president are trying to ensure that when he testifies before Mr. Mueller, as he has said he would “love to” do, he doesn’t insist on his alternative facts and put himself at risk of a perjury charge. Or perhaps, as the investigation closes in on the White House, there is a growing fear that the president is liable to act rashly, especially as he is being goaded daily by congressional Republicans and the right-wing media machine.

                "Act rashly."
                Why now?

                Could it be that Trump's triumphant appearance at the World Economic Forum at Davos, where he was met with praise, is the reason?

                Where he was warmly greeted and praised (even ardent critic Jim Acosta had to concede "He’s had a pretty good reception here").

                Where, as CNN's Christiane Amanpour noted in dismay, that he received a trumpet ovation at the opening of his speech (something never done before).

                Where, much to the shock and dismay of many in the MSM, the founder of the World Economic Forum, German economist Klaus Schwab, not openly criticized their coverage of Trump calling it "misconceptions and biased interpretations" but warmly praised him for getting the tax bill passed which Schwab declared "provid[ed] tremendous boost to the world economy" (while Democrats here, who all voted against it, in what can only be described as a case of sour grapes, mock it as "crumbs").

                Where even MSNBC had difficulty finding anything to criticize.


                This provides the MSM an excuse to ignore all that and focus on something else where they can continue their attacks.
                Last edited by rogue06; 01-27-2018, 08:49 AM.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                  From the Lawfare blog*
                  Testimony under oath about the obstruction charges would be a bloodbath for Trump. The president has told serial lies about his conversations with Comey, whose account is in any case backed by contemporaneous evidence and, it would appear, the testimony of Trump-camp insiders such as Reince Priebus.

                  Mueller’s team will meticulously serve up each of those lies back to Trump, forcing him either to disavow them (adding to the obstruction case) or recommit to them (adding perjury counts to Mueller’s ledger). And Trump is arrogant and easily goaded, making him a prosecutor’s dream.

                  The president's competency issues begin with himself, but extend outward indefinitely. What was it, five or six major law firms that refused to counsel him on the Mueller case before he found a taker. If he's a prosecutor's dream, he's a defense attorney's nightmare. He won't listen, and he won't shut up.

                  Tweet, tweet.

                  From the increasingly unhinged attacks on the FBI in general to Mueller in particular ranging from the recused-for-cause Nunes memo to secret society conspiracy theories, it's clear his closest supporters aren't merely spooked, they're terrified. The most recent Times bombshell can't be read as anything other than a plea for help from deep within the administration, and likely from McGahn's office itself. They think he's strapped on the vest and ready to detonate.
                  And there would be a number of options for Trump to upend the sandbox. He could discharge Mueller and face the firestorm. He could take the Fifth Amendment but posture as if he were doing it only out of contempt for the probe. He could perhaps agree to testify but basically filibuster and treat the whole proceeding as a “witch hunt” kangaroo court. That might force the unseemly prospect of Mueller’s bringing a contempt proceeding against him, which would raise new unresolved legal issues. Even a “wag the dog” strategy could not be counted as off the table.

                  Partisans are going to run for the mattresses on one side, and cheer the bloodbath on the other, but the wider perspective sees every president as ephemeral. It's the presidency itself that needs protection now.


                  * Taking the piglet's implied criticism of shortened url's to heart.
                  Just for the record, the under oath thingy hardly matters in this case, which is probably why Trump said he would be glad to testify under oath. No oath is needed in this case, to lie to the special prosecutor is already a crime. Also, though I guess it amounts to the same thing, but I think it might be more apropo to say that it is democracy itself that needs protection now.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    It's certainly wild.

                    The Mueller probe, and ongoing speculation about how Trump might respond to it, seems to me to demonstrate pretty clearly that the US did not respond to the Nixon-era scandals sufficiently well by properly regulating this process. Likewise the whole impeachment process appears poorly thought out in the sense that a congress is hardly going to impeach their own party's president.

                    Honestly, at this stage I doubt anyone knows whether Trump will testify or not, probably including Trump himself. The man will probably make a deal to testify and then back out of it on the day, and then be inspired by a Fox & Friends segment to go testify and then he'll Tweet all about it before he does it, and then his lawyers will talk him out of it again. I'd say it's 50/50 whether he ends up testifying in any capacity versus not.
                    If he refuses to talk with Mueller's team, then they can force him to testify before a grand jury, so i don't believe there is really any way out for him.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                      It's certainly wild.

                      The Mueller probe, and ongoing speculation about how Trump might respond to it, seems to me to demonstrate pretty clearly that the US did not respond to the Nixon-era scandals sufficiently well by properly regulating this process. Likewise the whole impeachment process appears poorly thought out in the sense that a congress is hardly going to impeach their own party's president.
                      With all due respect, that's not historically coherent. There were no political parties when the impeachment process was thought out. On the other hand, at risk of American political heresy, the advantages of a parliamentary system become unmistakably clear in times like these.

                      Honestly, at this stage I doubt anyone knows whether Trump will testify or not, probably including Trump himself. The man will probably]make a deal to testify and then back out of it on the day, and then be inspired by a Fox & Friends segment to go testify and then he'll Tweet all about it before he does it, and then his lawyers will talk him out of it again. I'd say it's 50/50 whether he ends up testifying in any capacity versus not.
                      We can be very sure his legal team doesn't want him to testify, even apart from suspicions that the latest leak came directly from McGahn. The objective reasons are compelling in themselves, and publicly available.

                      Nor is this 50/50. The biggest risk for his defense is that Trump will order Mueller fired. With that risk mitigated, by Gahn himself if I'm correct, but certainly by a close advisor, there is no stopping Mueller's investigation, which Mueller will not close without a Trump interview.

                      As to the timing, Trump's defiance syndrome has proven inadequate to overcome Gahn's strongest objections to date, and Trump won't sit for a Mueller interview without Gahn.

                      He'll be interviewed when Gahn wants him to be interviewed.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                        Sound like Lady Grey is writing 50 Shades level fanfiction, sad!



                        President Donald J. Trump faced 'how dare he fire Comey' fire and fury, made it through fine. If Trump fires Mueller, libs rage like last time, then what?
                        If he fires Mueller, it won't be only Libs that rage my russian friend, there will be plenty of patriotic republicans who rage as well, and that will be the beginning of the end of your beloved dictator wannabe.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                          You're ignoring the elephant in room: Trump will never testify because Mueller has nothing on him with which to compel his testimony.
                          That's not how it works.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by lao tzu View Post
                            According to your article, that's exactly how it works. If Mueller has nothing on the President, which is almost certainly the case, then he has no leverage for a subpoena.
                            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                            Than a fool in the eyes of God


                            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by JimL View Post
                              If he fires Mueller, it won't be only Libs that rage my russian friend, there will be plenty of patriotic republicans who rage as well
                              Like when Comey got "You're Fired!"?

                              , and that will be the beginning of the end of your beloved dictator wannabe.
                              Sounds familiar! Did they say that when Comey got "You're Fired!!"???
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment

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