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Christians & The Changed Life

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  • Christians & The Changed Life

    We're good at it. Someone comes in with a life filled with sin or otherwise in trouble, we help. We can get them to Jesus and programs and get them to a better place. And certainly the world is better for it.

    Yes there is an area we don't do well at. A church member will come for help. He's doing well in life with no obvious sin. He probably has some private struggles but who doesn't? He's more than just a pew warmer. But he expresses dissatisfaction with his relationship with God and what's he's doing to advance the kingdom.

    From my experience, the response will be "Don't change anything. Just keep doing what you're doing and everything will be fine."

    I wonder why this is?
    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

  • #2
    This is where confession to a priest helps. The priest, when told of these private struggles, can give advice beyond "keep doing what you're doing."
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #3
      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
      This is where confession to a priest helps. The priest, when told of these private struggles, can give advice beyond "keep doing what you're doing."
      I don't see it as just in "confessional" I think even in protestant churches the preacher is someone you can turn to for struggles. I have even gone to Cow Poke a few times with some problems (Thanks CP)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Sparko View Post
        I don't see it as just in "confessional" I think even in protestant churches the preacher is someone you can turn to for struggles. I have even gone to Cow Poke a few times with some problems (Thanks CP)
        Sure. It can happen in protestant churches, but IMO there tends to be more reluctance to do so. People want to put on a happy face for the preacher no less than other congregants - even in a smaller church where talking to the preacher is even practical. In a megachurch, you're pretty much out of luck.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          Sure. It can happen in protestant churches, but IMO there tends to be more reluctance to do so. People want to put on a happy face for the preacher no less than other congregants - even in a smaller church where talking to the preacher is even practical. In a megachurch, you're pretty much out of luck.
          In the megachurch I went to we had smaller groups within the church each led by a teacher/pastor whom we could go to.

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          • #6
            From what I've seen, larger churches often utilize such programs as Stephen Ministries to train laypeople to provide needed support. However, as best as I can tell these tend to be geared more toward crisis situations and not general spiritual malaise such as alluded to in the OP.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
              We're good at it. Someone comes in with a life filled with sin or otherwise in trouble, we help. We can get them to Jesus and programs and get them to a better place. And certainly the world is better for it.

              Yes there is an area we don't do well at. A church member will come for help. He's doing well in life with no obvious sin. He probably has some private struggles but who doesn't? He's more than just a pew warmer. But he expresses dissatisfaction with his relationship with God and what's he's doing to advance the kingdom.

              From my experience, the response will be "Don't change anything. Just keep doing what you're doing and everything will be fine."

              I wonder why this is?
              I think this is where "small groups" comes into play. Or, the 2 Tim 2:2 thing....

              Most of my congregation is made up of older "stable" adults - mostly "doing things right", and sometimes I'm perplexed as to what to challenge them to change.

              I just finished a seminar with a bunch of military/paramilitary/police guys (and women) as police chaplain, and there were other speakers, on topics associated with abuse of power, balance of power, soft power, etc...

              One of the guys was using an analogy that I'll use in a future sermon, no doubt. He was talking about "surviving", and using the illustration of a pilot being shot down over enemy territory (which he was). His training was "you don't just sit there, you constantly improve your fighting position". He was, of course, talking about waiting to be rescued. There was the risk that the enemy would find him first.

              And I thought - hey, we're on this planet "waiting to be rescued", but we're not just supposed to "hunker down" and wait. We should be constantly improving our fighting position. That includes - in the military sense - moving to a more desirable position, or if you have found the one you think is best, improving it as defensible, camouflage, or whatever. (he went through a list of options)

              In a Christian sense, one of the options we have is "bearing one another's burdens", encouraging one another, etc.

              Just some quick thoughts off the top of my hoary head.
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

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              • #8
                I've tried this in small groups. My experience is I get a response that translates "shut up. We don't want to deal with it."

                While small groups have their place, I find them overrated for what they can do.
                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                Comment


                • #9
                  No one changed my messed up life but the Holy Spirit.
                  Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    From what I've seen, larger churches often utilize such programs as Stephen Ministries to train laypeople to provide needed support. However, as best as I can tell these tend to be geared more toward crisis situations and not general spiritual malaise such as alluded to in the OP.
                    Wonder why churches aren't better prepared to handle spiritual malaise? Wrong training to the pastor elders? Wrong ministry emphasis? I would think above any other place on earth, a church would be the best place to go when you had a spiritual malaise.
                    "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                    "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                      Wonder why churches aren't better prepared to handle spiritual malaise? Wrong training to the pastor elders? Wrong ministry emphasis? I would think above any other place on earth, a church would be the best place to go when you had a spiritual malaise.
                      Your expectation should be that the majority will be largely indifferent to their own indifference. It is a mistake therefore to look to the tepid if you wish to set your spiritual life aflame.
                      For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                        Your expectation should be that the majority will be largely indifferent to their own indifference. It is a mistake therefore to look to the tepid if you wish to set your spiritual life aflame.
                        If you don't go to church, where do you go to find those who are not tepid? I am not going to pull an Elijah (or was it Elisha?) and say I'm the only one left.
                        "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                        "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Should the way that another conducts himself be allowed to impact on "my" own walk?
                          Serving in a church full of pew-warmers puts a person in a massive mission field.
                          1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                          .
                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
                          Scripture before Tradition:
                          but that won't prevent others from
                          taking it upon themselves to deprive you
                          of the right to call yourself Christian.

                          ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                            [I] [w]onder why churches aren't better prepared to handle spiritual malaise? Wrong training to the pastor elders? Wrong ministry emphasis? I would think above any other place on earth, a church would be the best place to go when you had a spiritual malaise.
                            Originally posted by The Remonstrant View Post
                            Your expectation should be that the majority will be largely indifferent to their own indifference. It is a mistake therefore to look to the tepid if you wish to set your spiritual life aflame.
                            Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                            If you don't go to church, where do you go to find those who are not tepid? I am not going to pull an Elijah (or was it Elisha?) and say I'm the only one left.
                            Broadly speaking, Western, English-speaking churches are in perpetual decline, doctrinally and spiritually. This negative trend is not new and can be expected to continue. I am not saying that all who avow themselves to be Christians are disingenuous in their profession of the faith. Nevertheless, if you are seeking inspiration for your journey of growth and maturity in Christ,* stellar examples in our present context are few and far between. There is no escaping the predominance of practical antinomianism, regardless of whether it is affirmed in theory or not.

                            * I.e. progressive holiness/sanctification.
                            For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                              [1] Should the way that another conducts himself be allowed to impact on "my" own walk? [2] Serving in a church full of pew-warmers puts a person in a massive mission field.
                              Though little heeded, there are biblical, apostolic calls to separation (see 1 Cor. 5.9–11; 2 Cor. 6.14–7.1).
                              For Neo-Remonstration (Arminian/Remonstrant ruminations): <https://theremonstrant.blogspot.com>

                              Comment

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