Page 11 of 33 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 323

Thread: The Concept of Privilege

  1. #101
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    someplace in Montana
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,156
    Amen (Given)
    1148
    Amen (Received)
    3181
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    There are systemic ways in which I am privileged by my whiteness. There are systemic ways in which I am privileged by my maleness. There are systemic ways in which I am privileged by my incredible good looks (ok - maybe that's a bit of a stretch ). That doe snot imply all white people everywhere experience those privileges to the same degree, and there are some who do not experience them at all (i.e., a person with a white-sounding name who has never written or submitted a resume is not going to experience the "privilege" that occurs in that context.). A person who is male who doesn't play a musical instrument is not going to experience the "privilege" their maleness would give them in that context.

    That does not make the existence of these "privileges" less real. They are systemic, measurable, real, and unjust. It simply means not all people benefit equally from systemic, and unjust, privilege.
    I think this is what people take objection to; I'm not sure that I've really seen this demonstrated. It's one of those topics that, if you'll allow me to say so, people aren't really "allowed" to question nowadays.
    Last edited by Zymologist; 01-30-2018 at 09:54 PM.
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

    "Metal is an apple--everything's good but the core."

  2. #102
    tWebber Mountain Man's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    United States
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,540
    Amen (Given)
    3854
    Amen (Received)
    3805
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    I think this is what people take objection to; I'm not sure that I've really seen this demonstrated. It's one of those topics that, if you'll allow me to say so, people aren't really "allowed" to question nowadays.
    If you dig back though academic history, the concept of "white privilege" was based almost exclusively on personal anecdotes where someone felt like they weren't given a fair shake because they weren't white, including absurd "injustices" like turning on the TV and seeing a majority of white people as opposed to an unrealistically disproportionate ratio of non-whites. Subsequent "research" has been little more than an exercise in confirmation bias.

  3. #103
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,710
    Amen (Given)
    21
    Amen (Received)
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    I think this is what people take objection to; I'm not sure that I've really seen this demonstrated. It's one of those topics that, if you'll allow me to say so, people aren't really "allowed" to question nowadays.
    I gave two examples, both of which were backed by studies. There are others. At this point, however, there seems little point in going further. Most of the denizens of this particular forum (at least those responding) appear to be dedicated to the proposition that none of this exists, and no amount of data seems likely to change that perspective.

    This is what is meant when folks talk about the fact that we are in a new age where facts just don't matter. If the facts don't fit the opinion, they are simply discarded or ignored. IMO, that's a pretty dangerous way to function. It's a threat to democracy, and it's a threat to civil society, IMO.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  4. #104
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    someplace in Montana
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,156
    Amen (Given)
    1148
    Amen (Received)
    3181
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I gave two examples, both of which were backed by studies. There are others. At this point, however, there seems little point in going further. The denizens of this particular forum appear to be dedicated to the proposition that none of this exists, and no amount of data seems likely to change that perspective.

    This is what is meant when folks talk about the fact that we are in a new age where facts just don't matter. If the facts don't fit the opinion, they are simply discarded or ignored. IMO, that's a pretty dangerous way to function. It's a threat to democracy, and it's a threat to civil society, IMO.
    And this is why I mentioned not being "allowed" to question it. If you're going to be this dismissive, I don't see the point in going further either.

    Edit: e.g., "you disagree? Obviously you just don't care about facts."

    ^that sort of talk is why I'm virtually incapable of taking politics seriously. It happens everywhere.
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

    "Metal is an apple--everything's good but the core."

  5. Amen Jedidiah, lilpixieofterror, Adrift amen'd this post.
  6. #105
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,710
    Amen (Given)
    21
    Amen (Received)
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    And this is why I mentioned not being "allowed" to question it. If you're going to be this dismissive, I don't see the point in going further either.

    Edit: e.g., "you disagree? Obviously you just don't care about facts."

    ^that sort of talk is why I'm virtually incapable of taking politics seriously. It happens everywhere.
    Um... I'm not talking about people who disagree. I'm talking about people who tell me I mean X when I have repeatedly said "I don't mean X, you're adding meaning to what I've said that I did not put there."

    And if someone believes that the studies I've provided are not accurate, then tell me how they are not accurate. If you believe the conclusions they draw do not mean what they are claimed to mean, then let's discuss that. If you have other evidence that is sourced and comes to a different conclusion, let's discuss that.

    But to simply wave them away and ignore them? I would suggest it is not I being dismissive.
    Last edited by carpedm9587; 01-30-2018 at 11:15 PM.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  7. #106
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    someplace in Montana
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,156
    Amen (Given)
    1148
    Amen (Received)
    3181
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    Um... I'm not talking about people who disagree. I'm talking about people who tell me I mean X when I have repeatedly said "I don't mean X, you're adding meaning to what I've said that I did not put there."

    And if someone believes that the studies I've provided are not accurate, then tell me how they are not accurate. If you believe the conclusions they draw do not mean what they are claimed to mean, then let's discuss that.

    But to simply wave them away and ignore them? I would suggest it is not I being dismissive.
    When I mentioned the statistics about being male involving more risk at the job etc., your response was:

    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    No one said that there are no disadvantages to being white/male. Overall, however, there is a tendency to more privilege than disadvantage for most of us.
    So yeah...I think you're being more dismissive than you realize.
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

    "Metal is an apple--everything's good but the core."

  8. #107
    Theologyweb's Official Grandfather Jedidiah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Peter's Creek, Alaska
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    11,127
    Amen (Given)
    17807
    Amen (Received)
    5862
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    And this is why I mentioned not being "allowed" to question it. If you're going to be this dismissive, I don't see the point in going further either.

    Edit: e.g., "you disagree? Obviously you just don't care about facts."

    ^that sort of talk is why I'm virtually incapable of taking politics seriously. It happens everywhere.
    Yup. Facts are only facts, but there can be more than one interpretation of these facts.
    Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

  9. Amen Cerebrum123 amen'd this post.
  10. #108
    tWebber carpedm9587's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Faith
    Atheist
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,710
    Amen (Given)
    21
    Amen (Received)
    352
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    When I mentioned the statistics about being male involving more risk at the job etc., your response was:

    So yeah...I think you're being more dismissive than you realize.
    I am dismissive of you because I disagree with you? Look, you made a statement. Fine. Now provide the data that supports your statement and I will happily look at it. I've provided two examples to support what I was saying, and I could provide more for other aspects of our society. But I am not sure why I would spend the time. So far, what I have put forward for supporting data is simply dismissed, and then counter assertions are made that are either a) not related to what I actually said, or b) are offered without a shred of supporting evidence.

    Zymo - I'm not a close-minded person. I will look at anything anyone brings to bear in a discussion. I have erred several time here and acknowledged it. I have changed my position here on the strength of an offered argument. I truly do not think it is I who is being dismissive here. I will willing look at anything offered to the discussion. That was my entire purpose for starting it.
    The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.

    -Martin Luther King

  11. #109
    Professor Zymologist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    someplace in Montana
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    5,156
    Amen (Given)
    1148
    Amen (Received)
    3181
    Quote Originally Posted by carpedm9587 View Post
    I am dismissive of you because I disagree with you? Look, you made a statement. Fine. Now provide the data that supports your statement and I will happily look at it. I've provided two examples to support what I was saying, and I could provide more for other aspects of our society. But I am not sure why I would spend the time. So far, what I have put forward for supporting data is simply dismissed, and then counter assertions are made that are either a) not related to what I actually said, or b) are offered without a shred of supporting evidence.

    Zymo - I'm not a close-minded person. I will look at anything anyone brings to bear in a discussion. I have erred several time here and acknowledged it. I have changed my position here on the strength of an offered argument. I truly do not think it is I who is being dismissive here. I will willing look at anything offered to the discussion. That was my entire purpose for starting it.
    Men are more likely to commit suicide than women.

    Men are more likely to die in war than women. (this one seems obvious)

    Men die younger.

    Men are more likely to die on the job.

    None of that is to say that we have a systemic problem with "female privilege" or something, but rather to say that if we're going to talk about what are ostensibly widespread, systemic problems like this it seems to be a lot more complicated than it's made out to be (i.e., male & white privilege outweigh most everything else).
    Hofstadter's Law: It will always take longer than you expect, even if you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

    "Metal is an apple--everything's good but the core."

  12. #110
    Professor KingsGambit's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Next to you
    Faith
    Christian
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    8,074
    Amen (Given)
    1342
    Amen (Received)
    3506
    Quote Originally Posted by Zymologist View Post
    I think this is what people take objection to; I'm not sure that I've really seen this demonstrated. It's one of those topics that, if you'll allow me to say so, people aren't really "allowed" to question nowadays.
    There's something to that. I know of one liberal Christian blogger who has a stated policy of deleting any comments on his Facebook page claiming white privilege does not exist because it is too dangerous of a statement to allow.
    I want something good to die for to make it beautiful to live.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •